Officials at States 2

[Wrasllinfan]

I have officiated this great sport for 20 years. When I started I went to a class in a wrestling room every Sunday from mid October to the Sunday after state tournament. We, as a board discussed situations that we had the previous week and the input of everyone within the board as to what they thought and how they would make the call. Granted after discussion there was times the person that made the call was convinced they were right or wrong but either way each and everyone showed great interest and concern to make sure we called it the same as a board if we ever saw that situation again. Over the 20 years I have seen a lot of good young officials begin but through the fact that it is a thankless job because no matter right or wrong someone is always mad or sure the official screwed up but I am willing to say that 90-95% of the time the official is correct and considering in a single match an official makes about 100-150 calls and 90-95% ( probably closer to 95-98% correct) is pretty darn good. I promise you. We do this for the love of the sport and the kids that participate in this great sport. And people that ALWAYS want to complain or add their two cents about how bad the officiating was at the match they just watched they, as Ray and Chris just stated, never showed up to dawn the stripes to help us others out. I called multiple state tournaments over the years but in my second year I almost walked away because of coaches and fans that thought they were never wrong. But a smart man, George Keeney, told me to be me and trust what I know. And I decided to be the best darn official in WV. May have never met that goal but I know every time I walked off the mat I did the very best I could and made sure I had both wrestlers best interest at heart. Would love to see our offials number double next year. But I know they won't. I came back this year because I love this sport and enjoy the friendships that come within this sport with wrestlers, coaches, and other officials.


Steve Stoffel
KS 1162

[potomac highlander]

This post started with a question about the assistant refs role in making judgements and of course that spurred some defensive responses. I have accepted that human error is present in everything we do. Referees in all sports and levels make mistakes.I disagree with the 2 major responses most often given when this topic arises. First, don't lay the blame on the wrestler that pays for a bad call with a loss (like saying, he should have been way ahead so one bad call wouldn't matter) Second, when people on the payroll in life that make a mistake, there first responce is genarally not, well why don't you step up and become a doctor, constuction worker, taxi-driver, painter etc.

[coach_williams]

I am curious to learn more about the second official's role as well. I was under the impression that the second official was to help spot things the main official may miss such as locking hands or grabbing headgear/singlet and for the main official to consult with if he is unsure of a call or thinks he missed something. At states one of our guy had a second official step in and overrule a call made by the main official even though the main official had a clear view of what he was making the call based on. I was unaware that the second official could overrule a call that the main official had a clear view of.

[potomac highlander]

Its been a year since I was interested in and found the rules concerning an assistant refs role. I remember that his responsibility was the make sure the time was right, try to watch for something that the main ref could not see and offer an opinion IF ASKED

[potomac highlander]

I feel your pain on that influence from the assist. ref. I watched that last year at state finals.

[vortexfan]

This post started with a question about the assistant refs role in making judgements and of course that spurred some defensive responses. I have accepted that human error is present in everything we do. Referees in all sports and levels make mistakes.I disagree with the 2 major responses most often given when this topic arises. First, don't lay the blame on the wrestler that pays for a bad call with a loss (like saying, he should have been way ahead so one bad call wouldn't matter) Second, when people on the payroll in life that make a mistake, there first responce is genarally not, well why don't you step up and become a doctor, constuction worker, taxi-driver, painter etc.

Well said!

[forthekids]

Actually, if you read the post it didn't start with a question. It started with bashing the officials then slid the question in last. Funny thing the question was answered several times but it coming back to this takedown or that no stall call. I can tell you this. I STAND BY EVERY CALL I MADE DURING THE TWO DAYS AND CAN POINT YOU TO THE RULE AND PARAGRAPH IN BOOK. HELL, I CAN EVEN SHOW YOU PICTURES. Heck in you don't believe me asked the official in the 22nd row. He never misses a call.

Enjoy the off season and you will have plenty of time to dissect my calls next year. I will be back.

Chris Diserio
CW O441

[forthekids]

Coach Williams,
Here is my take on assistant referee. He is there for another set of eyes. He can not make the call but can show locked hands if he sees it, caution if he sees it, illegal headlocks etc. After that he is there to assist and communicate with head official. He can give his opinion and what he saw. But after that it is the head officials call. It is not different then college. The funny thing I have seen watching a lot of college wrestling this year is the video in my opinion is a waste. The same people who made the call are reviewing the video. I don't remember seeing any call switched. I am sure the are some just haven't see any. I can also tell you there is a ton of communication going on between the official and the assistant that people don't see. I can get a split second look from a official and know without a doubt what he is thinking. WE are blessed in this state with some good officials, but the nature of the beast is we don't realize it.

Chris Diserio
CW 0441

[vortexfan]

Coach Williams,
Here is my take on assistant referee. He is there for another set of eyes. He can not make the call but can show locked hands if he sees it, caution if he sees it, illegal headlocks etc.[/color] After that he is there to assist and communicate with head official. He can give his opinion and what he saw. But after that it is the head officials call. It is not different then college. The funny thing I have seen watching a lot of college wrestling this year is the video in my opinion is a waste. The same people who made the call are reviewing the video. I don't remember seeing any call switched. I am sure the are some just haven't see any. I can also tell you there is a ton of communication going on between the official and the assistant that people don't see. I can get a split second look from a official and know without a doubt what he is thinking. WE are blessed in this state with some good officials, but the nature of the beast is we don't realize it.

Chris Diserio
CW 0441

Coach Williams,
Here is my take on assistant referee. He is there for another set of eyes. He can not make the call but can show locked hands if he sees it, caution if he sees it, illegal headlocks etc.[/color] After that he is there to assist and communicate with head official. He can give his opinion and what he saw. But after that it is the head officials call. It is not different then college. The funny thing I have seen watching a lot of college wrestling this year is the video in my opinion is a waste. The same people who made the call are reviewing the video. I don't remember seeing any call switched. I am sure the are some just haven't see any. I can also tell you there is a ton of communication going on between the official and the assistant that people don't see. I can get a split second look from a official and know without a doubt what he is thinking. WE are blessed in this state with some good officials, but the nature of the beast is we don't realize it.

Chris Diserio
CW 0441

He can not make the call but show lock hands if he sees it; caution if he sees it? Is that not calls?
This should be looked at so the human side of errors that are made can be corrected,(by the other ref) seems like the 2nd ref is really not needed then if they cannot overturn or consult with other calls or whatever your referring too.

[wrestlingfan23202]

This post started with a question about the assistant refs role in making judgements and of course that spurred some defensive responses. I have accepted that human error is present in everything we do. Referees in all sports and levels make mistakes.I disagree with the 2 major responses most often given when this topic arises. First, don't lay the blame on the wrestler that pays for a bad call with a loss (like saying, he should have been way ahead so one bad call wouldn't matter) Second, when people on the payroll in life that make a mistake, there first responce is genarally not, well why don't you step up and become a doctor, constuction worker, taxi-driver, painter etc.

Well said!

It most certainly didn't begin with a question, it went straight to bashing officials. I have also officiated football and baseball and coach wrestling. I will 99.9 percent of the time side with the officials they are there to make the calls rather I agree or disagree. TRUST ME they see it way better than where you sit in the stands.... The point of my post wasn't taking from the wrestler I am saying at the end of the match you should be able to say I gave it my all 100 percent and 90 percent of the time it wont come down to the "Officials call" Sadly, I wasn't at Fairmont as I had to work 10-10 both days but I can tell you the official or officials were 100 percent right you just didn't agree with the call because it was bad for the wrestler (S) you were rooting for. Thats the issue..... I think the officials were great all year this year its a hard job before you complain then get out there and do it yourself.

[forthekids]

"He can not make the call but show lock hands if he sees it; caution if he sees it? Is that not calls?
This should be looked at so the human side of errors that are made can be corrected,(by the other ref) seems like the 2nd ref is really not needed then if they cannot overturn or consult with other calls or whatever your referring too."

Then why do they use one and two extra in college? Why do they use video when 99.0% of the time does not get overturned? You missed the entire point. Another set of eye's to see things one set can't.
But sense you have never been on the mat under those circumstances I can totally understand why you don't get it!

[vortexfan]

It would be nice if a person could say I probably made a bad call, when they do. Most officials do a wonderful job but when the state finals or placed matches happen there should be some type of system to overule a missed call.
Kids work to hard for this!

[coach_williams]

Coach Williams,
Here is my take on assistant referee. He is there for another set of eyes. He can not make the call but can show locked hands if he sees it, caution if he sees it, illegal headlocks etc. After that he is there to assist and communicate with head official. He can give his opinion and what he saw. But after that it is the head officials call. It is not different then college. The funny thing I have seen watching a lot of college wrestling this year is the video in my opinion is a waste. The same people who made the call are reviewing the video. I don't remember seeing any call switched. I am sure the are some just haven't see any. I can also tell you there is a ton of communication going on between the official and the assistant that people don't see. I can get a split second look from a official and know without a doubt what he is thinking. WE are blessed in this state with some good officials, but the nature of the beast is we don't realize it.

Chris Diserio
CW 0441

I appreciate the input. Your take on the assistant referee and mine are pretty much the same. I feel like I witnessed something much different. Admittedly I was not right there on the edge of the mat when the call was made, but the head ref was clearly standing right in front of the wrestlers with a clear view of what he made the call on when he made the call and saw everything, and the assistant ref came on the mat, spoke to him and then the head ref changed his call. The head ref did not request input or have any confusion on his call. He saw it one way, the assistant ref saw it another, and the call was switched apparently based on what the assistant felt happened.

If I had one "suggestion" it would be a preseason meeting with all head coaches and all referees in the state to clarify rules, discuss new rules and make sure everyone is on the same page and informed.

[potomac highlander]

Great officiating this past weekend at D1 nationals. I noticed at least one video review overturn. I think that's a great tool for accuracy.

[forthekids]

Great officiating this past weekend at D1 nationals. I noticed at least one video review overturn. I think that's a great tool for accuracy.

I agree they looked good. Just checked a website and throughout the tournament there where 33 challengers and 2 got overturned (.06%) If that is accurate. One was locked hands and one was headgear.

[Frank]

If you don't like the officiating get off your hind ends and actually do something about it. Take the class and try to officiate instead of sitting back and complaining about all the so called bad calls that were made or not made by this or that terrible official. If all the association Secretaries in WV had a dollar for each time one of you effing experts came up to them and said they would like to take the exam and be an official they'd be rich. But instead once the season is over and summer comes nobody shows up or maybe, maybe, one or two actually do and find out it isn't as easy on the mat as it appears in the bleachers.

Are questionable calls made? Yes! Are we perfect? No! This is one of many aspects in life where you are expected to start out perfect and get better. Pretty difficult to do folks. Are some of us not in the best shape? No we are not. One of the reasons I retired this year is just that. I realized myself that I was not the official I thought I was 10, 15 years ago. I ached on Sundays after a 2 or 3 day tournament. Time for me to admit I had lost a few if not more steps. But I digress. Try coming out on the mat and keeping up with teenagers who have the ability to fly around the mat while you are twice or even three times their age. Get some of the young and newly graduated wrestlers to try officiating? That's a great idea and it is practiced each year by the association Secretaries. I couldn't agree with that statement more. Maybe if you experts would stay of their backs, criticizing every little mistake they make while they are learning we would be able to retain a good number of these kids and they would go on to have a long career as an official. No. You jump on them like you do the more experienced "older" officials because you know it all. Probably never picked up a Rule Book or even know where to find one. Much less read and understand how the rules are applied.And you wonder where all the young guys go. They leave because you all don't have the courtesy to give them the time and understanding to learn the sport.

Just because a loud noise sounds like a "bad call" doesn't necessarily make it illegal. Do you think we make these "bad calls" on purpose or we don't know the rule? Do you? We take two tests each year. We must pass the first one with at least a 70% grade out of a hundred questions. Yes its an open book test. Any official I know doesn't use the open book to take the test. You see, we do have some pride. The second test is a closed book test and depending on how well you score on it determines your rating for the year. A 1.00 rating is what we all are after but few obtain. If you want to work the State tournament you must have a rating close to 1.00 and be a Class I official. This ha\s been repeated over and over so many times it should be etched in your memory.

So before you sit back and complain know what the hell you're talking about.

As a friend from Fairmont said recently, "You may not like them, but you can't do what they do" And I will add something more to that. Taking a cue from an often over used saying, "Those who can, officiate. Those who can't bitch".

Have a nice day!

Ray Marling
OV0453 (retired)

Why so much anger

[Frank]

Coach Williams,
Here is my take on assistant referee. He is there for another set of eyes. He can not make the call but can show locked hands if he sees it, caution if he sees it, illegal headlocks etc. After that he is there to assist and communicate with head official. He can give his opinion and what he saw. But after that it is the head officials call. It is not different then college. The funny thing I have seen watching a lot of college wrestling this year is the video in my opinion is a waste. The same people who made the call are reviewing the video. I don't remember seeing any call switched. I am sure the are some just haven't see any. I can also tell you there is a ton of communication going on between the official and the assistant that people don't see. I can get a split second look from a official and know without a doubt what he is thinking. WE are blessed in this state with some good officials, but the nature of the beast is we don't realize it.

Chris Diserio
CW 0441

I appreciate the input. Your take on the assistant referee and mine are pretty much the same. I feel like I witnessed something much different. Admittedly I was not right there on the edge of the mat when the call was made, but the head ref was clearly standing right in front of the wrestlers with a clear view of what he made the call on when he made the call and saw everything, and the assistant ref came on the mat, spoke to him and then the head ref changed his call. The head ref did not request input or have any confusion on his call. He saw it one way, the assistant ref saw it another, and the call was switched apparently based on what the assistant felt happened.

If I had one "suggestion" it would be a preseason meeting with all head coaches and all referees in the state to clarify rules, discuss new rules and make sure everyone is on the same page and informed.

Can't we all just get along

[Frank]

This post started with a question about the assistant refs role in making judgements and of course that spurred some defensive responses. I have accepted that human error is present in everything we do. Referees in all sports and levels make mistakes.I disagree with the 2 major responses most often given when this topic arises. First, don't lay the blame on the wrestler that pays for a bad call with a loss (like saying, he should have been way ahead so one bad call wouldn't matter) Second, when people on the payroll in life that make a mistake, there first responce is genarally not, well why don't you step up and become a doctor, constuction worker, taxi-driver, painter etc.

Well said!

It most certainly didn't begin with a question, it went straight to bashing officials. I have also officiated football and baseball and coach wrestling. I will 99.9 percent of the time side with the officials they are there to make the calls rather I agree or disagree. TRUST ME they see it way better than where you sit in the stands.... The point of my post wasn't taking from the wrestler I am saying at the end of the match you should be able to say I gave it my all 100 percent and 90 percent of the time it wont come down to the "Officials call" Sadly, I wasn't at Fairmont as I had to work 10-10 both days but I can tell you the official or officials were 100 percent right you just didn't agree with the call because it was bad for the wrestler (S) you were rooting for. Thats the issue..... I think the officials were great all year this year its a hard job before you complain then get out there and do it yourself.

I don't blame the ref, the wrestler, nor the coach. It's gators fault.

[coach999]

I have a question for the referees. Do you think that some of the rules need changed to make your job easier? Especially subjective or judgment calls, such as stalling? I posted the rules on another topic, but it all got taken out of context as if I was blaming a referee. I like having 2 refs if utilized correctly. I think the refs do a great job. I have seen a few refs not hustling to start counting back points but this is few and far between. Most refs really do a good job, but I do think some of the rules can be redone to make calls more black and white vs subjective. Would any of the refs like to see some rules rewrote?

[aaacoach11]

Chris,

You were the asst referee during a quarterfinal match between Braxton and Keyser during this years state tournament. Mike called a locked hands on the Keyser kid and it was obvious that the Braxton kid purposely dropped to his knees to "bait" the locked hands. You went to Mike and he immediately changed the call to unsportsmanlike conduct on the Braxton kid. Great job on that call. You definitely had it right and it was obvious from the stands.

[Frank]

Chris,

You were the asst referee during a quarterfinal match between Braxton and Keyser during this years state tournament. Mike called a locked hands on the Keyser kid and it was obvious that the Braxton kid purposely dropped to his knees to "bait" the locked hands. You went to Mike and he immediately changed the call to unsportsmanlike conduct on the Braxton kid. Great job on that call. You definitely had it right and it was obvious from the stands.

What's that reverse upward wind noise I hear?

[aaacoach11]

Nice try Frank. I'm retired from coaching high school wrestling. Don't need any calls from Chris anytime soon.

[Gator]

Well said!

It most certainly didn't begin with a question, it went straight to bashing officials. I have also officiated football and baseball and coach wrestling. I will 99.9 percent of the time side with the officials they are there to make the calls rather I agree or disagree. TRUST ME they see it way better than where you sit in the stands.... The point of my post wasn't taking from the wrestler I am saying at the end of the match you should be able to say I gave it my all 100 percent and 90 percent of the time it wont come down to the "Officials call" Sadly, I wasn't at Fairmont as I had to work 10-10 both days but I can tell you the official or officials were 100 percent right you just didn't agree with the call because it was bad for the wrestler (S) you were rooting for. Thats the issue..... I think the officials were great all year this year its a hard job before you complain then get out there and do it yourself.

I don't blame the ref, the wrestler, nor the coach. It's gators fault.

Frank, you finally got something right!

[Gator]

You often see me talking with many officials and sometimes we get together for lunch or dinner. I've been blessed with many who I call friend and it's because I recognize them as human. Like all of us, they make mistakes, the only difference is their's is magnified in front of many of us who "think" we could do a better job. The good ones admit when they blow a call, others will take heat from coaches and fans for years. I'd rather forgive and forget than harbor hate. It just hurts you and makes enemies of good men who love the sport. That doesn't mean I won't discuss my displeasure at times, because I do. Just in a way to discuss it with an official to hear their response for making the call. If you listen, you may learn something.

Much respect from the "official" on the 22nd row,

Gator

[Frank]

Nice try Frank. I'm retired from coaching high school wrestling. Don't need any calls from Chris anytime soon.

Lol
Just cking

[forthekids]

You often see me talking with many officials and sometimes we get together for lunch or dinner. I've been blessed with many who I call friend and it's because I recognize them as human. Like all of us, they make mistakes, the only difference is their's is magnified in front of many of us who "think" we could do a better job. The good ones admit when they blow a call, others will take heat from coaches and fans for years. I'd rather forgive and forget than harbor hate. It just hurts you and makes enemies of good men who love the sport. That doesn't mean I won't discuss my displeasure at times, because I do. Just in a way to discuss it with an official to hear their response for making the call. If you listen, you may learn something.

Much respect from the "official" on the 22nd row,

Gator

Gator, I always enjoy our conversations. I know you can see it better from the 22nd row. I guess when I call the "dual" I don't make bad calls. All I hear the south siders say is CMON SCHNEY, I just figure they want him back. LOL