Seed Meeting

[J rollins]

When will the seed meeting take place? Is it open to all the coaches?

[OscarTheBoxer]

I heard it was last night. Not sure the criteria for being in the meeting. I assume it was open to all coaches? or maybe coaches with X number of wrestlers?

The way I understand it Champions from each region were seeded, once that was done they refer to the pill that matches that seeding and fill in the rest.

I'm sure someone in the know will fill us in and let us know when we will see stuff after they take care of their 9-5 thing

[Goldenponyboy]

It was for the regional chairs and the co chairs was my understanding. The seeding was for the 6 region champs and all others will be pill.

[J rollins]

I dont see how 6 representatives from around the state would know all of the most recent wins and head to head competition in every single bracket to accurately seed the kids properly. I think it should be an open door meeting to coaches. I know last year some seeds were way off in my sons bracket. I know cream rises to the top, but the kids should get the correct seed that theyve wrestled 6 months to deserve. The top 2 kids should be setup to meet in the finals. We'll see how the brackets look when theyre released. Hopefully this is something that wvywa looks into and keeps an eye on. Coaches from around the state are more familiar with the competition in their kids ages and weights than the region chairman. Hopefully we will have a good state tourney!!

[ddrennen]

JR States had an open door policy for coaches for years and years which always resulted in mixed results when it came to first/second seeds winning the tournament. You can never make everyone happy. No matter if its 60 people or 6 the brackets will never be "set up" perfectly.

You did say one correct thing "the cream will rise to the top". This is why we all love (well most of us) wrestling. The best wrestler will inevitably win out darn near every time.

Let the board take care of the seeds the way they want. I can tell you from experience seeding is the least fun job out there.

[Goldenponyboy]

Our region chair and co chair went and talked to all the coaches in the region and tried to get the info on all region winners to be ready for the seeds. I would recommend the coaches to get a hold of their respected chairman next year. Then it's hard to argue. Of course you will always have the few upsets or seeds wrong, but it is what it is.

[J rollins]

I understand completely where you're coming from. No system is perfect and you can never satisfy everyone. I do know the way the regional seeding is setup now that the top 2 or even 3 wrestlers could be in the same region. When thats the case that pretty much guarantees the top 2 kids wont be meeting up in the finals. I know of a few regions where the top 2 kids was in the same region. One of those kids will be the 1 seed, and the other not even seeded. That is a system that could be improved in my opinion. I know its a work in progress on some things since ywa is just getting started. I just think this is an area they could improve upon.

[J rollins]

I think head to head competition should trump all. If the 2nd place kid at x region is undefeated vs all the other regional winners then that kid should be the 2 seed. I just think seeding only the regional winners and not looking at head to head is wrong.

[RConley]

But those six kids have distinguished themselves as the winners of their region. Those should be the best six at that weight class. My son was fortunate enough to win his region although it was an upset. His height class only has five regional champions. He has faced two of the other four and I was asked by his coach/assistant chair what his record was against them. I thought this organization was trying to better youth wrestling. If we are going to complain and politic for every kid to be seeded we might as well just go to old states and submit over exaggerated 30 or 40 and 0 w/l records and have kids get byes only to lose their first match. Or don't submit any w/l record and have a stud run the table.

[James]

It has always been my opinion that seedind only helps the 2nd place wrestler get 2nd.

[Geoswaff]

My apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere, but have the seedings been posted? If so, can you provide a link?

[James]

Trackwrestling.com
Browse, Tournaments
Search change state and put WVYWA in tournament name. Brackets are not up yet.

[J rollins]

But those six kids have distinguished themselves as the winners of their region. Those should be the best six at that weight class. My son was fortunate enough to win his region although it was an upset. His height class only has five regional champions. He has faced two of the other four and I was asked by his coach/assistant chair what his record was against them. I thought this organization was trying to better youth wrestling. If we are going to complain and politic for every kid to be seeded we might as well just go to old states and submit over exaggerated 30 or 40 and 0 w/l records and have kids get byes only to lose their first match. Or don't submit any w/l record and have a stud run the table.

I think you're getting confused about where im coming from. Im not talking about exaggerating or complaining or talking upset wins. Im saying if its cut and dry that the top 2 kids are in the same region then how is it fair to the 2nd best kid in the STATE in that weight class to not even be seeded. Also im sure most wrestling fans want to see the top two kids in the finals. With this system the top 2 kids could possibly meet in the first round. This problem is going on around the state. Thats a fact! Not an exaggeration

[CoachontheHill]

If kid from region 1 is the first seed then the kid who got second in same region will be separated in the bracket. That way if the two best kids are from the same region, they still will meet in the finals.

[J rollins]

Thanks! I did not know the 2nd place finisher in each region was on the opposite side of the bracket as the 1st place kid in the same region. I thought they just fell in place after the seeded kids.

[J rollins]

Only if the kid is the 1 seed. I gotcha

[ddrennen]

No, for every regional Champ, the kid who got 2nd in their region is always in the other half of the bracket.

[J.W.]

Bottom line is last year had an like an 85% where number 1 met number 2 or 3. Those that did not were probably where number 1 met a runner up from same region and then your typical upsets do happen. Had all of the phone calls last year that they were all screwed up, where somebody's next Jordan Burroughs should have been the 1 and not the 3, and this kid beat David Taylor in the practice room and should be seeded ahead of Thomas Gilman. It all worked out in the end.

I created the spreadsheet that once the 6 regional champions are seeded, the rest fall in an order that separate same regions, that put 1 from each region in a seperate quadrant of the bracket. Number 2 and 3 from same region are always on separate side of bracket from regional champion and two and three from same region would be separated to the semis . No two wrestlers from same region will be in the same quadrant.... except for.....

Where a region was short, and we pulled 5th or 6ths from other regions to fill gaps. This is a crazy roll up to get your head wrapped around. If a region had 1 kid, you don't want a 5th placer moving in and taking a second rank spot, so then you have to roll up a 3rd placer from another region to give him the two spot in the region that only had 1. Then you have to move 4th to 3rd, then you can move the 5th place at large guy to the 4th seed. This is the only time where you see same regions in same quadrant of bracket.

As said above, nothing is perfect, but I promise you that last year great attention to detail was paid to all posted results, feedback from others after posted, etc, etc, etc.

I know that they are using the same bracketing worksheet this year, not sure how the seeding meeting went as I am not running the tourney this year by my own decision, but I would guess that the top two are separated, the top 2 from any give region are separated, and the best wrestler on that given weekend will have their chance to win the bracket.

Good luck to all at the YOUTH State Tournament. Yes we all want our kid to win, but don't make it the end all be all, or we will continue to have shortages at the high school level.

[J rollins]

Thanks for the info! I still think head to head competition should trump regional results as far as seeding goes. Regionals should be more for qualifying purposes rather than seeding purposes. If the top 2 kids in the state are out of the same region then that guarantees one of those kids wont even be seeded. We know that is 100% wrong for the second best kid to not even be seeded. To me that kid should have a 2 by his name if hes the projected 2nd best kid in the entire bracket. Seeding is suppose to rank the kids from top to bottom in the entire bracket. Not just by regions. Head to head does that. Just giving my logic of it all. Everybody has to wrestle and cream rises to the top but if we're going to seed why not get it as accurate as possible. If we're strictly saying cream rises to the top then dont seed anybody. One again.. thanks for reply and info!

[James]

Good words Mr Whorton. I only wish it was time to weigh-in and hit the mats. Anticipation is a killer for me. Good luck to all next weekend, and more important I wish for a injury free and safe travels for all event.

[Campion]

What size of weight class and below be round robin?

[Goldenponyboy]

Thanks for the info! I still think head to head competition should trump regional results as far as seeding goes. Regionals should be more for qualifying purposes rather than seeding purposes. If the top 2 kids in the state are out of the same region then that guarantees one of those kids wont even be seeded. We know that is 100% wrong for the second best kid to not even be seeded. To me that kid should have a 2 by his name if hes the projected 2nd best kid in the entire bracket. Seeding is suppose to rank the kids from top to bottom in the entire bracket. Not just by regions. Head to head does that. Just giving my logic of it all. Everybody has to wrestle and cream rises to the top but if we're going to seed why not get it as accurate as possible. If we're strictly saying cream rises to the top then dont seed anybody. One again.. thanks for reply and info!

If the two best kids are from the same region it doesn't matter about seed. 1-2 will be separated regardless. So if region 1 champion is supposedly the best and region 1 runner up is supposedly the 2nd best then as long as they wrestle and win the would make finals with each other. They wouldn't see each other before that unless in the consis

[James]

Does anyone know when brackets will be released on Track?

[Goldenponyboy]

I would imagine early next week, but I wouldn't be mad if it was this weekend haha, but I haven't heard anything yet.

[mike.carman]

Bottom line is last year had an like an 85% where number 1 met number 2 or 3. Those that did not were probably where number 1 met a runner up from same region and then your typical upsets do happen. Had all of the phone calls last year that they were all screwed up, where somebody's next Jordan Burroughs should have been the 1 and not the 3, and this kid beat David Taylor in the practice room and should be seeded ahead of Thomas Gilman. It all worked out in the end.

I created the spreadsheet that once the 6 regional champions are seeded, the rest fall in an order that separate same regions, that put 1 from each region in a seperate quadrant of the bracket. Number 2 and 3 from same region are always on separate side of bracket from regional champion and two and three from same region would be separated to the semis . No two wrestlers from same region will be in the same quadrant.... except for.....

Where a region was short, and we pulled 5th or 6ths from other regions to fill gaps. This is a crazy roll up to get your head wrapped around. If a region had 1 kid, you don't want a 5th placer moving in and taking a second rank spot, so then you have to roll up a 3rd placer from another region to give him the two spot in the region that only had 1. Then you have to move 4th to 3rd, then you can move the 5th place at large guy to the 4th seed. This is the only time where you see same regions in same quadrant of bracket.

As said above, nothing is perfect, but I promise you that last year great attention to detail was paid to all posted results, feedback from others after posted, etc, etc, etc.

I know that they are using the same bracketing worksheet this year, not sure how the seeding meeting went as I am not running the tourney this year by my own decision, but I would guess that the top two are separated, the top 2 from any give region are separated, and the best wrestler on that given weekend will have their chance to win the bracket.

Good luck to all at the YOUTH State Tournament. Yes we all want our kid to win, but don't make it the end all be all, or we will continue to have shortages at the high school level.

I have taken Jory's lead on this and followed his formulas to the letter. I assure you the same policies were put in place this year that were in place last year. It is through his great efforts last year that we have been able to work the process without him. Big thank you to Jory for setting things up so well for us.

The reason for seeding the top 6 is so we don't run into the issue that HS states has with a straight pill. we separates Regional placers as best we can from their counter parts and we separate regional champions by seed so that the formula works. I would call it more like picking a line and less seeding to be quite honest but we do try to give each seed as much attention as we possibly can. I know head to head is first criteria in picking the seeds and we go to great efforts to verify those matches. You would be surprised at how knowledgeable your regional reps are about your kids. These guys are very dedicated to youth wrestling and work very hard for your kids.

Seeding was completed Wednesday night and we are actually finishing up the brackets right now. All the information will go out to the Regional Chairs for a final once over and brackets will be released sometime next week.

[James]

Thank you Mr Carman.

[James]

I would imagine early next week, but I wouldn't be mad if it was this weekend haha, but I haven't heard anything yet.

Wouldn't anger me much either

[Vtauber]

Seeding is never going to be perfect no matter what. My son's head to head record gave him the 2nd seed at regionals (I thought that was pretty liberal myself) because the paperwork wanted his match-ups in the division he was wrestling at the state championships and the only times he has wrestles that weight has been at the qualifier and regional level because we decided to wrestle him up this year. He came away with the 1st at regionals. If it was based on his record he wouldn't have even been seeded at all at the state level. I know that studs sometimes wrestle up (not calling my own child a stud) then once at their natural weight without the record to reflect that someone could argue that a stud got missed.

[Campion]

There is less than 5 in some of my kids brackets, I only asked if they would wrestle round robin. Geez

[J rollins]

Seeding is never going to be perfect no matter what. My son's head to head record gave him the 2nd seed at regionals (I thought that was pretty liberal myself) because the paperwork wanted his match-ups in the division he was wrestling at the state championships and the only times he has wrestles that weight has been at the qualifier and regional level because we decided to wrestle him up this year. He came away with the 1st at regionals. If it was based on his record he wouldn't have even been seeded at all at the state level. I know that studs sometimes wrestle up (not calling my own child a stud) then once at their natural weight without the record to reflect that someone could argue that a stud got missed.

I wrestle my son up as well. He usually does his own weight and the next weight up. I assume you did not do this because you have to cut your son to get him to the weight hes wrestling at states. The 2 lb allowance is causing parents to cut kids down knowing theyll get an additional 2 lbs at states. The reason its called "your division" is because thats where your son wrestles at throughout the year. Im not a fan of the 2 lb allowance or the "private weigh in" that can take place with the regional chairman. I know everything is debatable. Good luck at states!