WVU Early Lineup

[Jon Perkins]

Let's take a look at WVU's predicted lineup and discuss the positives and negatives.

125: Jett Strickenberger - Cardinale left some big shoes to fill. This kid might be a step behind Killian, but look for him to make an instant impact
and will be very competitive. I predict that he will be a top 12 or 15 guy by the end of the year. Plus, the name Jett could be the coolest in
Division 1 wrestling.
133: Davin Rhoads - There is nowhere to go but up from last year. He had a pretty tough year but showed some positive signs. Let's hope he can
get everything together and show his real talents.
141: Jordan Titus - Let's hope he has grown into the weight class over the off season. With some added size and the right amount of confidence he
could be a very dangerous opponent for anyone.
149: Sam Hillegas - With Ty Watters nipping at his heals for the spot, I think Sam will get the spot while Ty takes a Red-shirt. Sam showed some
glimmers of hope last year so let's hope that he can put together a solid season.
157: Caleb Dowling - I felt like he was the better choice for this wight last year but barring injury he will be the guy this year. Look for some
improvement at this weight.
165: Peyton Hall - He had a rough ending to the season last year, let's hope he turns it around and makes the podium in one of the deepest weight
classes.
174: Brody Conley - After finishing third at the Midlands last year and learning some hard lessons during a Red-shirt year, I think Brodey is going to
be very exciting to watch.
184: Dennis Robin - After some very solid wins last year look for Dennis to be a bit of an upgrade here at this weight class.
197: Austin Cooley - After being plagued with some injuries last year let's hope those are all healed up and he can show he can really do.
HWT: Michael Wolfgram - This should be his final year, after some quality wins last year hopefully he can challenge for a lower spot on the podium.

This team probably won't finish much higher at the NCAA tournament, but this lineup will be a very solid dual team. Interested to get everyone's opinions on the upcoming season.

[Bearhugger]

Based on your predictions, I see one WV wrestler in the starting line up.

If the rule change regarding medical forfeits counting as losses does indeed happen, that should also make this an interesting season.

[mscoach57]

Did Joll decline his extra Covid year?
184 What does the Carman vs Robin vs Bush matchup look like?
5 wv natives on a roster of 26. Not great but not horrible either.
I’m excited about Conley at 174 and Wolfgram at 285 in a year where some of the powerhouses may have wrestlers taking an Olympic redshirt we may be able to surprise some people.

The medical forfeit rule will have 2 effects:
Guys who are banged up or out of shape or suffering from the latest pre-election version of Covid will simply not enter the tournament.
The guys who do enter the tournament will actually wrestle the entire tournament instead of winning the first couple of matches against backups/unattached opponents and then forfeiting out.

Hearing a persistent rumor that if the appeal is granted we will have a different name at 157. WV boy coming home similar to when Dylan Cottrell and Jake Smith came back. Having another West Virginia boy of that caliber in the lineup would be a boost to the ncaa and big 12 point totals.

I haven’t looked at a weight class breakdown for the big 12 so projecting how many we will get to the ncaa’s is difficult. Is Arizona state in the conference this season? If so it will add some qualifier numbers to the tournament but will also make the conference tournament tougher.

[JohnK73]

Arizona State won’t be in the conference this season, the realignment starts next season.

[Bearhugger]

Arizona State won’t be in the conference this season, the realignment starts next season.

Arizona State is entering the Big 12 next season????? Ohhhhhhh Hell!!!!!!

[Jon Perkins]

Did Joll decline his extra Covid year?
184 What does the Carman vs Robin vs Bush matchup look like?
5 wv natives on a roster of 26. Not great but not horrible either.
I’m excited about Conley at 174 and Wolfgram at 285 in a year where some of the powerhouses may have wrestlers taking an Olympic redshirt we may be able to surprise some people.

The medical forfeit rule will have 2 effects:
Guys who are banged up or out of shape or suffering from the latest pre-election version of Covid will simply not enter the tournament.
The guys who do enter the tournament will actually wrestle the entire tournament instead of winning the first couple of matches against backups/unattached opponents and then forfeiting out.

Hearing a persistent rumor that if the appeal is granted we will have a different name at 157. WV boy coming home similar to when Dylan Cottrell and Jake Smith came back. Having another West Virginia boy of that caliber in the lineup would be a boost to the ncaa and big 12 point totals.

I haven’t looked at a weight class breakdown for the big 12 so projecting how many we will get to the ncaa’s is difficult. Is Arizona state in the conference this season? If so it will add some qualifier numbers to the tournament but will also make the conference tournament tougher.

I was thinking Joll transferred out, not sure if he landed anywhere or not. I don't think he would have beat Conley out for the spot even if he would have stayed.
The 184 battle: Carman will be out for the first semester. Robin actually beat Carman in an Open tournament last year and with little action from Bush last year it is hard to tell how he stacks up. Brian Finnerty had a good showing last year at 184 but I am predicting Robin as the guy here and I think he holds his own all season.
With any luck Josh Humphreys will be granted another year from the NCAA. If he would choose WVU for one last run at an NCAA title, that could be huge for the program and would definitely generate a lot more points at the conference and national tournaments.

[Bearhugger]

Did Joll decline his extra Covid year?
184 What does the Carman vs Robin vs Bush matchup look like?
5 wv natives on a roster of 26. Not great but not horrible either.
I’m excited about Conley at 174 and Wolfgram at 285 in a year where some of the powerhouses may have wrestlers taking an Olympic redshirt we may be able to surprise some people.

The medical forfeit rule will have 2 effects:
Guys who are banged up or out of shape or suffering from the latest pre-election version of Covid will simply not enter the tournament.
The guys who do enter the tournament will actually wrestle the entire tournament instead of winning the first couple of matches against backups/unattached opponents and then forfeiting out.

Hearing a persistent rumor that if the appeal is granted we will have a different name at 157. WV boy coming home similar to when Dylan Cottrell and Jake Smith came back. Having another West Virginia boy of that caliber in the lineup would be a boost to the ncaa and big 12 point totals.

I haven’t looked at a weight class breakdown for the big 12 so projecting how many we will get to the ncaa’s is difficult. Is Arizona state in the conference this season? If so it will add some qualifier numbers to the tournament but will also make the conference tournament tougher.

I was thinking Joll transferred out, not sure if he landed anywhere or not. I don't think he would have beat Conley out for the spot even if he would have stayed.
The 184 battle: Carman will be out for the first semester. Robin actually beat Carman in an Open tournament last year and with little action from Bush last year it is hard to tell how he stacks up. Brian Finnerty had a good showing last year at 184 but I am predicting Robin as the guy here and I think he holds his own all season.
With any luck Josh Humphreys will be granted another year from the NCAA. If he would choose WVU for one last run at an NCAA title, that could be huge for the program and would definitely generate a lot more points at the conference and national tournaments.

Before anything happens with Humphreys, let's all collect what we all know now. Humphreys is a proven winner. 3rd in the NCAA AT LEHIGH. His NCAA semi-final loss to the eventual champion was close.

If Humphreys gets another year and if he goes to WVU, he should do very well. His success will be because Josh is Josh. It will be similar to when Cardinale transferred in and placed 7th in his first season at WVU.

[Geoswaff]

If Humphreys gets another year and if he goes to WVU, he should do very well. His success will be because Josh is Josh. It will be similar to when Cardinale transferred in and placed 7th in his first season at WVU.

Cardinale went from Not Qualifying at ODU in 2020 to 7th place at WVU in 2021. To not give any cred to WVU and it coaches for his development doesn't feel accurate to me. To compare the situation with Humphreys is only accurate in that they are both transfers. To finish on the podium again, whether or at WVU or whatever institution he goes to is a credit both to him and his coaches. Obviously the top is the goal, but at 157 their is no clear separation between the tier 1 guys that Humphreys is a part of. If he catches a 3 or 2 seed at the NCAAs and loses in the semis again in a close match or hits the hot wrestler earlier and finishes lower on the podium, I wouldn't call that a failure of WVU coaches. I call that "any given Sunday". I think its fair to question it if he doesn't make the podium, but then does that mean that Cael Sanderson is a crappy coach because Drew Hildebrandt didn't make the podium last year after finishing 4th the year before? I think you get laughed out of the room with that argument.

[mscoach57]

I think most of us want wvu to be a good competitive team. How we get to that point is the subject of debate.
If the ncaa does the right thing and we get Josh then our results on the scoreboard improve and the partners around 157 likely get better too. The WVU coaches do not have to do anything spectacular for that to happen.

“Cardinale went from Not Qualifying at ODU in 2020 to 7th place at WVU in 2021. To not give any cred to WVU and it coaches for his development doesn't feel accurate to me.”

Geo where did you find that Cardinale did not qualify for the ncaa in 2020? Look again, he is in the bracket. He didn’t win any matches that year but in fairness neither did anyone else. Covid canceled the tournament.
Since you invited the comparison here is how he went into the ncaa tournament:
2020 15th seed (ODU)
2021 17th seed (wvu)
2022 5th seed (wvu)
2023 28th seed (wvu)


Aside from your comment about Cardinale’s results being imaginary, you’re speculating Josh’s results next year linking that to Drew H’s results is a good argument. But while we are talking about being laughed out of the room, maybe hold off on comparing Flynn to Sanderson for a little while. For a program that once preached accountability when the coaches arrived, I know there are many excuses as to why but the fact is we’re coming off a 12th place finish in the Big 12. There are only 13 teams. We beat Cal Baptist. We can spin results any way to make things look better but I think most of us agree that we must get better. We have the best facilities in the conference, we have another good recruiting class coming in, it is time to produce. 12/13 is not acceptable.

[Geoswaff]

I think most of us want wvu to be a good competitive team. How we get to that point is the subject of debate.
If the ncaa does the right thing and we get Josh then our results on the scoreboard improve and the partners around 157 likely get better too. The WVU coaches do not have to do anything spectacular for that to happen.

Geo your comment comparing Cardinale’s results and then speculating Josh’s results next year linking that to Drew H’s results is a good argument. But while we are talking about being laughed out of the room, maybe hold off on comparing Flynn to Sanderson for a little while. For a program that once preached accountability when the coaches arrived, I know there are many excuses as to why but the fact is we’re coming off a 12th place finish in the Big 12. There are only 13 teams. We beat Cal Baptist. We can spin results any way to make things look better but I think most of us agree that we must get better. We have the best facilities in the conference, we have another good recruiting class coming in, it is time to produce. 12/13 is not acceptable.

First off, love this thread and the debate.
I was not comparing Flynn to Sanderson, Sanderson is in a class by himself, and then there are the rest of the coaches as far as I am concerned. I was using the comparison of Hildebrandt to Cardinale, or really any transfer, to add credence to why only giving good/bad credit to the wrestler or the coach for the outcome is hard at best to justify.

Using Big 12s are barometer should be a great method to measure success, but its sad that is not. The conference allocations drive the strategy for how teams perform at the conference championships. Wrestlers withdraw as soon as they are in the allocation window. Case in point Hall withdrew and finished 6th instead of 3rd leaving 6-10 points on the board. Cardinale didn't wrestle at all leaving 16 -20 points on the board as he was the clear 1 seed. This approach happened at all the conference tourneys and was a source of lots of debate. Putting those points on the board has us finish maybe 8th at best. Better but not what we all want.

I'm enjoying this discussion, so no issue with anyone challenging my opinion.

[Geoswaff]

Geo where did you find that Cardinale did not qualify for the ncaa in 2020? Look again, he is in the bracket. He didn’t win any matches that year but in fairness neither did anyone else. Covid canceled the tournament.

Ouch, you sir are confusing the issues with the facts.

I quickly looked at Wrestlestat and saw he was NQ for 2020, my brain (or lack thereof) failed me in connecting that to the COVID year.

[Bearhugger]

If Humphreys gets another year and if he goes to WVU, he should do very well. His success will be because Josh is Josh. It will be similar to when Cardinale transferred in and placed 7th in his first season at WVU.

Cardinale went from Not Qualifying at ODU in 2020 to 7th place at WVU in 2021. To not give any cred to WVU and it coaches for his development doesn't feel accurate to me. To compare the situation with Humphreys is only accurate in that they are both transfers. To finish on the podium again, whether or at WVU or whatever institution he goes to is a credit both to him and his coaches. Obviously the top is the goal, but at 157 their is no clear separation between the tier 1 guys that Humphreys is a part of. If he catches a 3 or 2 seed at the NCAAs and loses in the semis again in a close match or hits the hot wrestler earlier and finishes lower on the podium, I wouldn't call that a failure of WVU coaches. I call that "any given Sunday". I think its fair to question it if he doesn't make the podium, but then does that mean that Cael Sanderson is a crappy coach because Drew Hildebrandt didn't make the podium last year after finishing 4th the year before? I think you get laughed out of the room with that argument.

Cardinale wrestled in 3 NCAA tournaments while at WVU.

He placed 7th.
He did not place.
He placed 8th.

[Bearhugger]

I think most of us want wvu to be a good competitive team. How we get to that point is the subject of debate.
If the ncaa does the right thing and we get Josh then our results on the scoreboard improve and the partners around 157 likely get better too. The WVU coaches do not have to do anything spectacular for that to happen.

Geo your comment comparing Cardinale’s results and then speculating Josh’s results next year linking that to Drew H’s results is a good argument. But while we are talking about being laughed out of the room, maybe hold off on comparing Flynn to Sanderson for a little while. For a program that once preached accountability when the coaches arrived, I know there are many excuses as to why but the fact is we’re coming off a 12th place finish in the Big 12. There are only 13 teams. We beat Cal Baptist. We can spin results any way to make things look better but I think most of us agree that we must get better. We have the best facilities in the conference, we have another good recruiting class coming in, it is time to produce. 12/13 is not acceptable.

First off, love this thread and the debate.
I was not comparing Flynn to Sanderson, Sanderson is in a class by himself, and then there are the rest of the coaches as far as I am concerned. I was using the comparison of Hildebrandt to Cardinale, or really any transfer, to add credence to why only giving good/bad credit to the wrestler or the coach for the outcome is hard at best to justify.

Using Big 12s are barometer should be a great method to measure success, but its sad that is not. The conference allocations drive the strategy for how teams perform at the conference championships. Wrestlers withdraw as soon as they are in the allocation window. Case in point Hall withdrew and finished 6th instead of 3rd leaving 6-10 points on the board. Cardinale didn't wrestle at all leaving 16 -20 points on the board as he was the clear 1 seed. This approach happened at all the conference tourneys and was a source of lots of debate. Putting those points on the board has us finish maybe 8th at best. Better but not what we all want.

I'm enjoying this discussion, so no issue with anyone challenging my opinion.

Hall and Cardinale have been carrying a lot of the load. Cardinale is gone. Hall finds himself in a brutal weight class in the Big 12. Outside of the Big 12, there are plenty of other tough 165s out there.

[Jon Perkins]

Not that some of this isn’t interesting but what does Josh Humphreys and Killian Cardinale have to do with WVU’s current roster? The original thought of this thread was what do people think of the current roster and incoming freshmen.

[Bearhugger]

Not that some of this isn’t interesting but what does Josh Humphreys and Killian Cardinale have to do with WVU’s current roster? The original thought of this thread was what do people think of the current roster and incoming freshmen.

You referenced Cardinale in your opening statement. Humphreys could be incoming..............somewhere.

[JohnK73]

I think they will be a good dual team. Overall, i think the upper weights (165-hwt) will carry more of the team. Not sold on Tyson at 141 because he looks small compared to his competition, but must not be able to make 133 anymore. Concerned that many of the duals will started off with 2-3 losses. Having Killian start off the last few years was a luxury.

[Jon Perkins]

I think they will be a good dual team. Overall, i think the upper weights (165-hwt) will carry more of the team. Not sold on Tyson at 141 because he looks small compared to his competition, but must not be able to make 133 anymore. Concerned that many of the duals will started off with 2-3 losses. Having Killian start off the last few years was a luxury.

Do not doubt Jett Stickenberger at 125, he is JuCo national champ and won the Cowboy Open last year. In high school he was ranked in the Top 10 at 120lbs and was a Fargo champion. This kid can attack from both sides with efficiency and is tough as nails on top. He may not be the All-American that KC was but he will be a very solid replacement. It is very possible that I am wrong about this but I expect him to be ranked in the top 12 or 15 by the end of the year.

[Geoswaff]

Not that some of this isn’t interesting but what does Josh Humphreys and Killian Cardinale have to do with WVU’s current roster? The original thought of this thread was what do people think of the current roster and incoming freshmen.

That’s just the way these threads go off the
Yellow brick road sometimes. No biggie.

[Geoswaff]

I think they will be a good dual team. Overall, i think the upper weights (165-hwt) will carry more of the team. Not sold on Tyson at 141 because he looks small compared to his competition, but must not be able to make 133 anymore. Concerned that many of the duals will started off with 2-3 losses. Having Killian start off the last few years was a luxury.

In the recent flo interviews with Flynn and many of the WVU wrestlers, Titus talked about how he felt undersized last year, how he never lifted in high school, and how lifting is a norm for his routine since he joined WVU and that he feels bigger and stronger this year and focused on his ability to get off of bottom. Hope to see this translate to the mat this season.

[Jon Perkins]

I think they will be a good dual team. Overall, i think the upper weights (165-hwt) will carry more of the team. Not sold on Tyson at 141 because he looks small compared to his competition, but must not be able to make 133 anymore. Concerned that many of the duals will started off with 2-3 losses. Having Killian start off the last few years was a luxury.

In the recent flo interviews with Flynn and many of the WVU wrestlers, Titus talked about how he felt undersized last year, how he never lifted in high school, and how lifting is a norm for his routine since he joined WVU and that he feels bigger and stronger this year and focused on his ability to get off of bottom. Hope to see this translate to the mat this season.

Jordan had some good wins last year over Carter Young, Casey Swiderski, and Cole Mathews. He certainly has the talent so let’s hope he has put on some size. If he knows he isn’t so undersized then that should increase his confidence. I think he has a better year than last year.

[Bearhugger]

Do we have any line up updates now?

It appears Josh Humphreys isn't getting that extra year.