Are There Too Many Weight Classes?

[coach_williams]

A lot of the talk on here over the last few months has been about open spots at regionals and states and wrestlers with poor records getting into states because of small brackets at regionals. I was thinking about this yesterday as I watched NCAA wrestling and it hit me that this issue can be fixed by simply reducing the number of weight classes. As recent as 1987 we only had 12 weight classes and we didn't go to 14 weight classes until 1996. By simply dropping back down to 12 weight classes virtually all of the competition issues go away.

[forthekids]

I kind of agree but what weight classes do you lose?

[Gator]

I think the high school weights are fine. I'd like to see a 220/225 in college. A weight class that a 220 out of high school could fill.

[Frank]

A lot of the talk on here over the last few months has been about open spots at regionals and states and wrestlers with poor records getting into states because of small brackets at regionals. I was thinking about this yesterday as I watched NCAA wrestling and it hit me that this issue can be fixed by simply reducing the number of weight classes. As recent as 1987 we only had 12 weight classes and we didn't go to 14 weight classes until 1996. By simply dropping back down to 12 weight classes virtually all of the competition issues go away.

I ve know coach Williams for several year, probably over a decades. No disrespect intended. But this by far is the dumbest thing his has ever said, that I am aware of.
Bless his heart

[Frank]

I kind of agree but what weight classes do you lose?

None,
No away with that type of thinking.

[coach_williams]

I kind of agree but what weight classes do you lose?

I wouldn't "lose" them as much as I would redo the entire weight classes. Something like 100, 111, 122, 134, 146, 158, 171, 184, 198, 215, 240, 285

Instead of a 7 or 8 pound gap between weights I would extend it to 11 to 13 pounds in the lower classes and 14 or 15 in the upper weights.

@gator I agree. I would put a split between what is currently 220-285 to eliminate these guys who can't make it down to 220 having to wrestle someone 55-60 pounds heavier than them. I see 240 as sort of a "light heavyweight" class.

[coach_williams]

A lot of the talk on here over the last few months has been about open spots at regionals and states and wrestlers with poor records getting into states because of small brackets at regionals. I was thinking about this yesterday as I watched NCAA wrestling and it hit me that this issue can be fixed by simply reducing the number of weight classes. As recent as 1987 we only had 12 weight classes and we didn't go to 14 weight classes until 1996. By simply dropping back down to 12 weight classes virtually all of the competition issues go away.

I ve know coach Williams for several year, probably over a decades. No disrespect intended. But this by far is the dumbest thing his has ever said, that I am aware of.
Bless his heart

I would expect no less from you Frank lol

I am just trying to figure out some way that would be easier to create fuller brackets with better competition. It worked a decade ago just fine. With increasingly lower numbers in wrestling, this is probably where we are headed. Either that or elimination of AAA and AA/A and just having one class for the entire state.

[vortexfan]

Why decrease the weight classes; there's a better opportunity for them ((kids) to get he chance to start and wrestle. If we have two big regionals these byes would
Not be an issue! Let's not cut from this sport anymore and figure ways for it to grow and become more popular!

[coach_williams]

Why decrease the weight classes; there's a better opportunity for them ((kids) to get he chance to start and wrestle. If we have two big regionals these byes would
Not be an issue! Let's not cut from this sport anymore and figure ways for it to grow and become more popular!

No argument from me. I am all for growing the sport. That doesn't seem to be the trend tho. Even if coaches are working to increase interest, the simple reality is this state is losing 2000+ students per year. Between 2000 and 2010 our state saw a 1.5% decline in school-age residents. That was an average of 1700 students per year. That rate has increased over the last few years meaning that number will go up for 2010-2020. I saw an article a week or two ago that said we are losing 5000 students between this year and next year because the floods displaced so many people and a lot of them moved away.

I don't want to cut the sport, but I think a realignment of weights keeps more kids interested than a single class does.

[vortexfan]

Why decrease the weight classes; there's a better opportunity for them ((kids) to get he chance to start and wrestle. If we have two big regionals these byes would
Not be an issue! Let's not cut from this sport anymore and figure ways for it to grow and become more popular!

No argument from me. I am all for growing the sport. That doesn't seem to be the trend tho. Even if coaches are working to increase interest, the simple reality is this state is losing 2000+ students per year. Between 2000 and 2010 our state saw a 1.5% decline in school-age residents. That was an average of 1700 students per year. That rate has increased over the last few years meaning that number will go up for 2010-2020. I saw an article a week or two ago that said we are losing 5000 students between this year and next year because the floods displaced so many people and a lot of them moved away.

I don't want to cut the sport, but I think a realignment of weights keeps more kids interested than a single class does.

Good point; it bums me out how much I think wrestling has lost some of its luster. I guess it's just not wrestling either, several other sports and even how small the marching bands are getting too.
I enjoy the 14 weight classes but think maybe forfeits should be scored differently for the schools that just cannot fill a complete team. (Whole other issue about forfeits)

[aaacoach28]

There is not to many weight classes. I've coached 40 years , when they added the 220 weight class it took out a middle weight class that was never vacant on any teams. I think changing the 220 lb weight class to be heavy weight after 195 lb . Heavy weight be 196 to 235 then add a super heavy weight with no limit. That would make more sense.

[Gator]

I kind of agree but what weight classes do you lose?

I wouldn't "lose" them as much as I would redo the entire weight classes. Something like 100, 111, 122, 134, 146, 158, 171, 184, 198, 215, 240, 285

Instead of a 7 or 8 pound gap between weights I would extend it to 11 to 13 pounds in the lower classes and 14 or 15 in the upper weights.

@gator I agree. I would put a split between what is currently 220-285 to eliminate these guys who can't make it down to 220 having to wrestle someone 55-60 pounds heavier than them. I see 240 as sort of a "light heavyweight" class.

I don't think we could start at 100 lbs because it's too difficult to find a 106 now. Maybe start at 111. A lot of your big guys are football only and adding to the upper weights may be hard on some smaller schools. I'll just leave it to the national pros to set the weights. They know better than me.

[Gator]

There is not to many weight classes. I've coached 40 years , when they added the 220 weight class it took out a middle weight class that was never vacant on any teams. I think changing the 220 lb weight class to be heavy weight after 195 lb . Heavy weight be 196 to 235 then add a super heavy weight with no limit. That would make more sense.

I like the no limit coach. I recall Calhoun County having a 400+ lber many moon ago.

[brentsams]

I don't like it, but if you drop a weight class, it would be one of the light weights. But I do like a Super Heavyweight class. Start at 110 and increase 7 pounds up to 152.
14 weights: 110, 117, 124, 131, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 182, 195, 220, 245, UNL.

[Bearhugger]

Using the logic of reducing the number of weight classes to fix the forfeit problem is a great idea. Lets use this logic to fix all issues with wrestling. Lets just cancel it all and throw wrestling out of the schools.

[Bearhugger]

There is not to many weight classes. I've coached 40 years , when they added the 220 weight class it took out a middle weight class that was never vacant on any teams. I think changing the 220 lb weight class to be heavy weight after 195 lb . Heavy weight be 196 to 235 then add a super heavy weight with no limit. That would make more sense.

I like the no limit coach. I recall Calhoun County having a 400+ lber many moon ago.

AA/A just had a 182 pounder struggle to make weight (to be heavy enough) to be able to go 285. He made weight and ran through the state's best to get to the finals.

[Gator]

There is not to many weight classes. I've coached 40 years , when they added the 220 weight class it took out a middle weight class that was never vacant on any teams. I think changing the 220 lb weight class to be heavy weight after 195 lb . Heavy weight be 196 to 235 then add a super heavy weight with no limit. That would make more sense.

I like the no limit coach. I recall Calhoun County having a 400+ lber many moon ago.

AA/A just had a 182 pounder struggle to make weight (to be heavy enough) to be able to go 285. He made weight and ran through the state's best to get to the finals.

In 1979 John Marshall's Rich Schoene won the unlimited weight class weighing less than 190. If my memory recalls, he wrestled some of the year at 185. He defeated the undefeated ( and over 50 lbs heavier) Charlie Craven in the finals 11-9. That was a wild and crazy final! Remember it well.

[Frank]

Lets just promote and recuit,
start youth programs and build middle school programs.

[coach_williams]

I kind of agree but what weight classes do you lose?

I wouldn't "lose" them as much as I would redo the entire weight classes. Something like 100, 111, 122, 134, 146, 158, 171, 184, 198, 215, 240, 285

Instead of a 7 or 8 pound gap between weights I would extend it to 11 to 13 pounds in the lower classes and 14 or 15 in the upper weights.

@gator I agree. I would put a split between what is currently 220-285 to eliminate these guys who can't make it down to 220 having to wrestle someone 55-60 pounds heavier than them. I see 240 as sort of a "light heavyweight" class.

I don't think we could start at 100 lbs because it's too difficult to find a 106 now. Maybe start at 111. A lot of your big guys are football only and adding to the upper weights may be hard on some smaller schools. I'll just leave it to the national pros to set the weights. They know better than me.

My logic in dropping 106 down to 100 was because we are seeing quite a few kids that are 92-100 lbs wrestling 106. I agree, filling many of the weight classes is getting difficult for lots of schools. It seems the 106, 113, and 285 are the ones we se the most like this.

[coach_williams]

Using the logic of reducing the number of weight classes to fix the forfeit problem is a great idea. Lets use this logic to fix all issues with wrestling. Lets just cancel it all and throw wrestling out of the schools.

So you oppose brackets full of varsity wrestlers but support JV wrestlers going to states. Got it.

Lets just promote and recuit,
start youth programs and build middle school programs.

No argument here. It doesn't seem to be working very well tho. Have you paid any attention to what happened to the team we left behind at EGMS two years ago?

[Frank]

Using the logic of reducing the number of weight classes to fix the forfeit problem is a great idea. Lets use this logic to fix all issues with wrestling. Lets just cancel it all and throw wrestling out of the schools.

So you oppose brackets full of varsity wrestlers but support JV wrestlers going to states. Got it.

Lets just promote and recuit,
start youth programs and build middle school programs.

No argument here. It doesn't seem to be working very well tho. Have you paid any attention to what happened to the team we left behind at EGMS two years ago?

EGMS is failing due to lack of administrative support.

If you cut out weight classes them wrestlers will have to cut more weight. Follow mma and you will see what I'm talking about.

[GRECO]

Can someone tell me which weights are affecting WV in filling?

Correct me if I am wrong, is it the light and heavyweights?

[coach_williams]

EGMS is failing due to lack of administrative support.

If you cut out weight classes them wrestlers will have to cut more weight. Follow mma and you will see what I'm talking about.

I am sure there is no admin support there. They never had it before either, but we were able to overcome that with recruiting and promoting.

So wrestlers prior to 1997 had to cut more weight than they do now? I wrestled in the 1980s and I don't remember it going anymore than I do now. I get your point, but cutting weight is not required. A wrestler who weights 137 does not have to cut 5 pounds, he can simply wrestle 138. Cutting is not mandatory.

Can someone tell me which weights are affecting WV in filling?

Correct me if I am wrong, is it the light and heavyweights?

Yes, the lower weights seem to be the smallest numbers. There just aren't that many high school students who are interested in wrestling and weigh under 106 or even 113 pounds these days.

[GRECO]

Thanks for the feedback but as I recall from the early 80's when I wrestled back there ... the lightweights were really weak as well

But I don't think WV has the power or any single state for that matter to raise or change any weight classes

But I agree with you about not having that big of a population of kids weighing in at 106-116 or what ever the weight is

Kids are eating more junk food then ever!

Just asked my close friend who is the wrestling Board here in CA. He says he would love to see weights starting at 120...

You talk about weight cutting? OMG!
I used to cut 28 -30lbs within 3 weeks!! For many years including while overseas
You are so correct when you say that cutting weight is a bad thing for kids to go through and many will quit in this age of wrestling

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on WV wrestling

[southside_tiger]

In the past 25 years there have been 3 times that 103/106 failed to field a full bracket, and 3 times for 112/113. I don't think those numbers warrant getting rid of those classes. The little guys put on some of the most exciting matches in my opinion.

[coach_williams]

In the past 25 years there have been 3 times that 103/106 failed to field a full bracket, and 3 times for 112/113. I don't think those numbers warrant getting rid of those classes. The little guys put on some of the most exciting matches in my opinion.

I agree and this is the same reason that we don't need to realign the divisions to fill the brackets. From the beginning I felt it was not that big of an issue, but some insisted that it was. For that reason, I was trying to brainstorm some ways to avoid having to go to a 2 region system or move schools that are 5 minutes from each other into different regions to ease the concern that every once in a blue moon there is an open spot in a bracket.