Question #1

[Bearhugger]

Do any WV high school VARSITY football teams schedule and play any JUNIOR VARSITY football teams of other schools? Or is all football competition strictly varsity versus varsity and JV versus JV?

I appreciate your input so I can gain a better understanding.

[mike.carman]

No. Varsity vs Varsity and JV vs JV and Freshmen vs Freshmen

[Bearhugger]

No. Varsity vs Varsity and JV vs JV and Freshmen vs Freshmen

Wow! Football even breaks down competition to allow freshmen vs freshman???? That doesn't teach much life lessons. None of my bosses at work were my age. None of the employees I supervised were my age. Some were 20 years older and some have been 20 years younger.

[jofus]

JV players dress for varsity football games (at least everywhere I'm familiar with) and in a lot of cases actually play in varsity games, obviously, due to injuries, lopsided scores, the varsity player not performing well, matchups, etc. If the kid gives a good showing, he may get more varsity time, and if he plays better than the varsity player, he may get to be varsity full time (with most coaches, at least).

But...obviously any coach with any sense (there are probably a few out there without much ) will start his best quarterback, best center, best 2 cornerbacks, etc. I'm sure there are lots of teams out there with JV quarterbacks that are good enough to start varsity at a lot of other schools, and so on.

This is the same for about all sports...basketball, for example. This is why the SSAC has rules about how many quarters you can play in a night in basketball, how many sets in volleyball, etc.

To answer the other question, In some other sports JV teams do actually compete in varsity tournaments. I ref Vollyball, and several of the bigger schools (like Woodrow, for example) will enter both their varsity team and their JV team in the same tournament. Woodrow JV also has duals/tris/quads with other varsity teams, while their varsity team is playing somewhere else, and they aren't alone in doing that.

[pkbwrestling]

JV players dress for varsity football games (at least everywhere I'm familiar with) and in a lot of cases actually play in varsity games, obviously, due to injuries, lopsided scores, the varsity player not performing well, matchups, etc. If the kid gives a good showing, he may get more varsity time, and if he plays better than the varsity player, he may get to be varsity full time (with most coaches, at least).

But...obviously any coach with any sense (there are probably a few out there without much ) will start his best quarterback, best center, best 2 cornerbacks, etc. I'm sure there are lots of teams out there with JV quarterbacks that are good enough to start varsity at a lot of other schools, and so on.

This is the same for about all sports...basketball, for example. This is why the SSAC has rules about how many quarters you can play in a night in basketball, how many sets in volleyball, etc.

To answer the other question, In some other sports JV teams do actually compete in varsity tournaments. I ref Vollyball, and several of the bigger schools (like Woodrow, for example) will enter both their varsity team and their JV team in the same tournament. Woodrow JV also has duals/tris/quads with other varsity teams, while their varsity team is playing somewhere else, and they aren't alone in doing that.

Parkersburg quit dressing JV players who weren’t ready to play varsity. Coach would dress 40-45 on fridays.

You get a lot of freshman hurt throwing them on the field with high end varsity players. 14 v 18 is no bueno. I’ve watched one freshman play varsity the past four years and he’s a D1 kid. There are always exceptions to the rule but more often than not a freshman lined up across from a junior/senior.

[NhsMom]

There are rules governing JV players and how many quarters they can play on the varsity and still remain JV, but I don’t have the numbers or details offhand

[dontlikethelights]

They may play in a total of 50 quarters in one season, excluding playoffs. A single snap counts as a full quarter. In 2015-2016 they changed the rule for Freshman teams. If a freshman plays in a Varsity game they cannot move back to the Freshman team; therefore it makes more sense to let Freshman who will never see the field play on a Freshman team and gain experience rather than stand on the sideline all season.

[noshowjoe]

Do the jv and freshmen get a chance at a state title.
Only if they make varsity.

[jofus]

It depends on the sport. In football, at least at schools I'm aware of, everyone dresses for varsity games, so if your team wins a state title, you're on the field and part of the victory. In other sports, like basketball, volleyball, etc., the ssac limits how many you can have on the bench, so at least some JV kids won't be dressed.

When I was a sophomore, back in the stone age, our basketball team went to the state tournament, but I didn't dress, so I sat in the bleachers like every other student that was there.

[matcoach90]

The comment about age 14 going against age 18 was correct... for most kids, that’s tough. My son was freshman on a very good team this past season. He was good enough to play quite a bit of varsity. However, as the season progressed, his body began to break down from the punishment he took from older, bigger kids. It was great for his experience and getting to letter, but he paid for it. Luckily, he was able to start wrestling season in pretty good shape. Just something to think about.

[greencrush]

Your point is moot. JV wrestling teams are allowed to compete in tournaments vs Varsity wrestling teams.
What you meant to ask is, can a JV football team compete for a state championship (or strive for second); the answer is no. However, a JV player may prove himself to be better than the varsity player, at which point he would no longer be JV.

[CoachY]

No. Varsity vs Varsity and JV vs JV and Freshmen vs Freshmen

Wow! Football even breaks down competition to allow freshmen vs freshman???? That doesn't teach much life lessons. None of my bosses at work were my age. None of the employees I supervised were my age. Some were 20 years older and some have been 20 years younger.

If a freshman is good enough, he will make the varsity team. If the Jv kid improves, he will make the varsity team. If not, then they will be placed on Jv or the freshman teams to develop skills. Life lessons learned are work for what you want, be willing to go through the growing pains. Are you comparing 14-15 year old kids to adults? Sounds like someone trying to compare a high school wrestler to a world class athlete

[Bearhugger]

No. Varsity vs Varsity and JV vs JV and Freshmen vs Freshmen

Wow! Football even breaks down competition to allow freshmen vs freshman???? That doesn't teach much life lessons. None of my bosses at work were my age. None of the employees I supervised were my age. Some were 20 years older and some have been 20 years younger.

If a freshman is good enough, he will make the varsity team. If the Jv kid improves, he will make the varsity team. If not, then they will be placed on Jv or the freshman teams to develop skills. Life lessons learned are work for what you want, be willing to go through the growing pains. Are you comparing 14-15 year old kids to adults? Sounds like someone trying to compare a high school wrestler to a world class athlete

No. There is all of this talk about "life lessons" but in football, there is often separation of high school players based on their age due to the difference in a 14 year old to an 18 year old. My point is that in life, their is no separation in age in the work place.

If you pay attention to my posting history, I never compare a high school KID to a world class athlete.

[CoachY]

I did pay attention LOL. You compared football players to your work. I was using sarcasm in my comparison to another post you argued against comparing kids to elite athletes.

I coach both sports, wrestling will teach great life lessons, as does football. But the team aspect of football is amazing when it comes together. I know what you are saying, and why you are making the arguments you are making. Discussion is always good. I was just discussing a topic that I don't agree with you on. It's like the old argument "if I was A/AA I would have one the whole thing" or the other way around. You play with the hand your are dealt. If you don't like the hand, it's up to you to change it.

[Bearhugger]

I did pay attention LOL. You compared football players to your work. I was using sarcasm in my comparison to another post you argued against comparing kids to elite athletes.

I coach both sports, wrestling will teach great life lessons, as does football. But the team aspect of football is amazing when it comes together. I know what you are saying, and why you are making the arguments you are making. Discussion is always good. I was just discussing a topic that I don't agree with you on. It's like the old argument "if I was A/AA I would have one the whole thing" or the other way around. You play with the hand your are dealt. If you don't like the hand, it's up to you to change it.

I have no problem with what you say and your positions. Not that it matters. Wrestling competition began November 29th and will continue until the state tournament concludes. As the competitions continue, a blind person can see that there is no competition for the AAA state team championship, but at the individual level, there are many interesting weight classes. As the competition continues, we see what individuals are winning, losing and where the margins of victory are so narrow, it is anybody's to take. Also as the competition continues, one to JV wrestlers pop up on the radar as being one of the top 4-5 in their weight class. There is ongoing participation throughout the season for the JV wrestlers. It is good for the kids and it is good for the sport. However, due to the old rules, it is no longer good for the kids and the sport when the regional weekends arrive.

Maybe the position should be if you are not good enough to be varsity, then you cannot wrestle? Cannot wrestle anytime, anywhere! It pretty much use to be that way years ago...................so many of the old timers, traditionalists and mullet heads should like it.

[CoachY]

I did pay attention LOL. You compared football players to your work. I was using sarcasm in my comparison to another post you argued against comparing kids to elite athletes.

I coach both sports, wrestling will teach great life lessons, as does football. But the team aspect of football is amazing when it comes together. I know what you are saying, and why you are making the arguments you are making. Discussion is always good. I was just discussing a topic that I don't agree with you on. It's like the old argument "if I was A/AA I would have one the whole thing" or the other way around. You play with the hand your are dealt. If you don't like the hand, it's up to you to change it.

I have no problem with what you say and your positions. Not that it matters. Wrestling competition began November 29th and will continue until the state tournament concludes. As the competitions continue, a blind person can see that there is no competition for the AAA state team championship, but at the individual level, there are many interesting weight classes. As the competition continues, we see what individuals are winning, losing and where the margins of victory are so narrow, it is anybody's to take. Also as the competition continues, one to JV wrestlers pop up on the radar as being one of the top 4-5 in their weight class. There is ongoing participation throughout the season for the JV wrestlers. It is good for the kids and it is good for the sport. However, due to the old rules, it is no longer good for the kids and the sport when the regional weekends arrive.

Maybe the position should be if you are not good enough to be varsity, then you cannot wrestle? Cannot wrestle anytime, anywhere! It pretty much use to be that way years ago...................so many of the old timers, traditionalists and mullet heads should like it.

Agreed, but on the other hand those tough rooms breed competition which make everyone better. If each school is allowed more than one per weight, would that competitive edge drop? One argument against your views is if you can't make the team, then move. So, the opposite of this COULD be that we would see more "moving" to top programs so you receive better coaching, practice partners, opportunities. There are always lots of angles to look at the issues at hand.

[mike.carman]

Wow! Football even breaks down competition to allow freshmen vs freshman???? That doesn't teach much life lessons. None of my bosses at work were my age. None of the employees I supervised were my age. Some were 20 years older and some have been 20 years younger.

If a freshman is good enough, he will make the varsity team. If the Jv kid improves, he will make the varsity team. If not, then they will be placed on Jv or the freshman teams to develop skills. Life lessons learned are work for what you want, be willing to go through the growing pains. Are you comparing 14-15 year old kids to adults? Sounds like someone trying to compare a high school wrestler to a world class athlete

No. There is all of this talk about "life lessons" but in football, there is often separation of high school players based on their age due to the difference in a 14 year old to an 18 year old. My point is that in life, their is no separation in age in the work place.

If you pay attention to my posting history, I never compare a high school KID to a world class athlete.

Wow, this went completely left. Anyone can move up a level. Freshmen can participate in JV and Varsity and likewise they can move back down with the only exception being that sophomores, juniors and seniors cannot participate in freshman athletics, hence why they are called freshmen teams. I thought you were asking if a Varsity team would play a JV team not individuals. However, there are cases that the JV squad will get into a Varsity game but your varsity squad will never play a JV game but individuals can move up and down.

[dontlikethelights]

23.6.b. Any member of a freshman team in a 4-year high school that plays in a varsity contest (scrimmage, grid-o-rama or game) is ineligible to return to the freshman team. (Revised 2015-16)
Page 47 from the 2017-2018 WVSSAC Rules and Regulations Handbook under §127-3-23. Football

[mscoach20]

I see what you're doing (mostly stirring the pot). Your entire point is irrelevant. Here is why. Each school can only enter one varsity team in the playoffs. So even if the school had 11 players that were good enough to form another team, win all their games, and only lose to their varsity, they still could not compete as a separate entity. Nice try. However, I tend to only compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

[KDunbar]

But don't you see, his point will be that you are merely quoting rules and they are simply made to be broken/rewritten to make the situation better. Thus the kids sitting on the sidelines ready to quit Martinsburg football because they themselves are better than at least 50% of the high school football players in WV could form Martinsburg "B" and have a chance to play Martinsburg "A" in the STATE HIGH SCHOOL(S) team FINALS. That's only fair.

[mscoach20]

But don't you see, his point will be that you are merely quoting rules and they are simply made to be broken/rewritten to make the situation better. Thus the kids sitting on the sidelines ready to quit Martinsburg football because they themselves are better than at least 50% of the high school football players in WV could form Martinsburg "B" and have a chance to play Martinsburg "A" in the STATE HIGH SCHOOL(S) team FINALS. That's only fair.

What you have typed here makes less sense than his original argument.

I COMPLETELY see his point.

It just, like that comment, makes no sense.

[KDunbar]

But don't you see, his point will be that you are merely quoting rules and they are simply made to be broken/rewritten to make the situation better. Thus the kids sitting on the sidelines ready to quit Martinsburg football because they themselves are better than at least 50% of the high school football players in WV could form Martinsburg "B" and have a chance to play Martinsburg "A" in the STATE HIGH SCHOOL(S) team FINALS. That's only fair.

What you have typed here makes less sense than his original argument.

I COMPLETELY see his point.

It just, like that comment, makes no sense.

Great! Then you actually get it. It wasn't supposed to make sense. It was just like the one you were originally responding to that you are saying you COMPLETELY see that makes no sense. You completely see my point. It just keeps on going.

[mscoach20]

dunbar.....what?

I do get this. Anyone in favor of JV being nonscorers at state fail to realize we want to change a rule for the exception. It’s a microcosm of America. Though it may hurt 99% of JV kids to get mauled at regionals, that 1% may do well. If it was happening regularly, then it’d be in effect. Obviously 1-2 kids a year aren’t worth sacrificing many other kids that aren’t ready