Individual Rankings

[Bearhugger]

We have gone all season without the individual rankings that most of us look forward to.

1. At a glance, it appears less schools are turning in their scores as compared to previous seasons.
2. Turning in only team scores doesn't provide the needed head to head scores needed for compiling individual rankings.
3. It has been learned that at least one school opted to use another website for posting their scores instead of WVMAT.
4. I am taking upon myself that Doc allocates less time to the site than in previous seasons......which I 100% agree with.

To remedy this situation, many of us began compiling our own individual polls and the intent was to maintain them for the remainder of the season. This activity began at least around January 24th.

As this process began, an individual chimed in and asked this to be halted. It was stated that the individual polls were being worked on.

At least 9 days later, we still have no individual polls.

NEXT SEASON, I volunteer to receive all of the scores from all of the "score submitters". I will compile the rankings based on factual data submitted and then be able to provide justification at any time upon request.

I can then forward the scores information to Doc to be placed into the scores section.

[Geoswaff]

It’s worth a try and is better than not having them. Does anyone know what the actual reason(s) is that individual rankings have not been produced? Maybe we just need to fix that?

[coach_williams]

I am sure I will get someone angry at me over this (not the first time, not the last), but neither Doc nor score reporters are to blame here. On Jan 8th Doc posted the initial thread about rankings with a list of wrestlers asking for input. In the 24 days since then there have been a total of 8 coaches (myself plus 7) to respond to that thread with input, scores/results or info about weight class changes and there have been no responses at all since Jan 18. We have 91 schools with wrestling programs and 8 coaches have provided input. The problem is coaches who either don't care or don't want to be bothered with it. The irony here is that 90% of those same coaches will complain about how their wrestlers were ranked when they finally do come out.

[KDunbar]

I think I saw on another post that they were 10-4.

[guard0544]

I am sure I will get someone angry at me over this (not the first time, not the last), but neither Doc nor score reporters are to blame here. On Jan 8th Doc posted the initial thread about rankings with a list of wrestlers asking for input. In the 24 days since then there have been a total of 8 coaches (myself plus 7) to respond to that thread with input, scores/results or info about weight class changes and there have been no responses at all since Jan 18. We have 91 schools with wrestling programs and 8 coaches have provided input. The problem is coaches who either don't care or don't want to be bothered with it. The irony here is that 90% of those same coaches will complain about how their wrestlers were ranked when they finally do come out.

I suspect it has more to do with the coaches being used to how it worked in the past. They posted the match results and did not have to do anything else. Not many coaches are reading the forum all the time. They likely do not know input was asked for.

I suspect next season we will have someone like Bearhugger or another going through the posted match results each week and compiling the list of results for a ranking. Why not? Someone able and willing to devote the time to do it is all we need to get it going again.

[Bearhugger]

I am sure I will get someone angry at me over this (not the first time, not the last), but neither Doc nor score reporters are to blame here. On Jan 8th Doc posted the initial thread about rankings with a list of wrestlers asking for input. In the 24 days since then there have been a total of 8 coaches (myself plus 7) to respond to that thread with input, scores/results or info about weight class changes and there have been no responses at all since Jan 18. We have 91 schools with wrestling programs and 8 coaches have provided input. The problem is coaches who either don't care or don't want to be bothered with it. The irony here is that 90% of those same coaches will complain about how their wrestlers were ranked when they finally do come out.

I am also not trying to upset anybody, so nobody should take any of the following personal.

1. Some coaches do not have time to be involved in rankings. They need to focus on their wrestlers and their programs.

2. Just because somebody is a coach doesn't mean they know much or anything that is going on throughout the entire state when it comes to who has beat who.

3. The rankings have always been for fun, but this season, there has been "no fun" because of no rankings.

4. We were building our own rankings and it was a positive effort to get it right.

[Bearhugger]

It’s worth a try and is better than not having them. Does anyone know what the actual reason(s) is that individual rankings have not been produced? Maybe we just need to fix that?

One could speculate that if the rankings came out now, it would fuel other controversies.

[mattman]

I would do rankings the Monday after the state tournament. Rankings are an opinion and overrated. Let the young men decide who is who on the podium. I promise you the results will outweigh the rankings. Zero controversy, zero opinions! These young men will rank themselves in Huntington!

[vortexfan]

Are the individual rankings really that important? Or just interesting for the fans to review, I know it may be about seeding for regionals but I don’t think rankings mean that much, time will tell who rises to the top. I know a few JVers that should be ranked ahead of who may be ranked but that’s another issue that not everyone can agree on.

[coach_williams]

I am also not trying to upset anybody, so nobody should take any of the following personal.

1. Some coaches do not have time to be involved in rankings. They need to focus on their wrestlers and their programs.

2. Just because somebody is a coach doesn't mean they know much or anything that is going on throughout the entire state when it comes to who has beat who.

3. The rankings have always been for fun, but this season, there has been "no fun" because of no rankings.

4. We were building our own rankings and it was a positive effort to get it right.

1. Agreed. However, consider this. There are somewhere around 240 coaches with the aaacoach### or aacoach### username, plus a few dozens others who go by their actual name or a created username, and 8 of them (around 3%) have contributed. Local mayor elections get more involvement than that.

2. Agreed. I don't know much about AAA other than what I read here. However, it isn't that hard to post a simple response with relevant matches that your wrestler(s) have won. Something as simple as saying that it has been overlooked that your 138 beat the #2 138 from last year can help.

3. Agreed.

4. Agreed. I was actually enjoying reading the thoughts and input.

[coach_williams]

Are the individual rankings really that important? Or just interesting for the fans to review, I know it may be about seeding for regionals but I don’t think rankings mean that much, time will tell who rises to the top. I know a few JVers that should be ranked ahead of who may be ranked but that’s another issue that not everyone can agree on.

In the grand scheme of things, no they are not that important, but I do know that it means something to the wrestlers and to the fans.

[Underdog3382]

Anything that creates/perpetuates interest in the sport is a good thing. The polls do that. Do they matter? They don't matter in the sense that wins and losses are not determined by rankings in the polls. But if creating interest in the sport "matters", then the polls matter.

Further, it is meaningful to the wrestlers. When my kid's name showed up in the polls for the first time, it was a big deal. It meant others had recognized his hard work. It is a reward of sorts for that effort.

Finally, we all belong to a sports subculture. Each of us that is interested in wrestling, whether we are fans, wrestlers, officials or parents of wrestlers, are a part of that wrestling subculture. Not a lot of people outside of the subculture understand it. When someone finds out my son wrestles, they invariably want to know if he is any good. I could tell them he placed in ____ place at _____ tournament. But that wouldn't mean anything to them. For instance, they wouldn't be able to understand the significance of winning the WSAZ or Winner's Choice tournament as opposed to some smaller tournament. However, if I can say my son is ranked _____ in the state at _______ weight class, it has meaning.

[Gator]

Anything that creates/perpetuates interest in the sport is a good thing. The polls do that. Do they matter? They don't matter in the sense that wins and losses are not determined by rankings in the polls. But if creating interest in the sport "matters", then the polls matter.

Further, it is meaningful to the wrestlers. When my kid's name showed up in the polls for the first time, it was a big deal. It meant others had recognized his hard work. It is a reward of sorts for that effort.

Finally, we all belong to a sports subculture. Each of us that is interested in wrestling, whether we are fans, wrestlers, officials or parents of wrestlers, are a part of that wrestling subculture. Not a lot of people outside of the subculture understand it. When someone finds out my son wrestles, they invariably want to know if he is any good. I could tell them he placed in ____ place at _____ tournament. But that wouldn't mean anything to them. For instance, they wouldn't be able to understand the significance of winning the WSAZ or Winner's Choice tournament as opposed to some smaller tournament. However, if I can say my son is ranked _____ in the state at _______ weight class, it has meaning.

I happen to agree. They are done for entertainment purposes and to give us an idea of who the top wrestlers are at a given weight class.

I enjoyed and gave kuddos to KennyFPowers and Maskedman for putting together the AAA and AA/A rankings. They asked for positive feedback from others and results. Many of us gave what we had to help. There was no bickering or grumbling, just some fans and coaches working together to promote wrestling interest. It was fun and you can still see them on the forum.
I hope you both keep them updated and others help them do it.

[Bearhugger]

Anything that creates/perpetuates interest in the sport is a good thing. The polls do that. Do they matter? They don't matter in the sense that wins and losses are not determined by rankings in the polls. But if creating interest in the sport "matters", then the polls matter.

Further, it is meaningful to the wrestlers. When my kid's name showed up in the polls for the first time, it was a big deal. It meant others had recognized his hard work. It is a reward of sorts for that effort.

Finally, we all belong to a sports subculture. Each of us that is interested in wrestling, whether we are fans, wrestlers, officials or parents of wrestlers, are a part of that wrestling subculture. Not a lot of people outside of the subculture understand it. When someone finds out my son wrestles, they invariably want to know if he is any good. I could tell them he placed in ____ place at _____ tournament. But that wouldn't mean anything to them. For instance, they wouldn't be able to understand the significance of winning the WSAZ or Winner's Choice tournament as opposed to some smaller tournament. However, if I can say my son is ranked _____ in the state at _______ weight class, it has meaning.

You are spot on. Polls and scores increase interest. Wrestling has too many people that constantly say "this doesn't matter" or "that doesn't matter". Then they bring up some once in a lifetime example to support their argument.