Last Man Standing aka Last Chance Qualifier

[Bearhugger]

The bulk of this idea belongs to a genius that we shall leave anonymous for now. Rather than continuing to call it the “Last Man Standing” tournament, the “Last Chance Qualifier” is a more fitting name.

At this time in the season, the regional tournaments are over. All wrestlers can be divided into three groups:
1. State tournament qualifiers.
2. State tournament NON-qualifiers.
3. Junior varsity aka non-regional participants.

Currently, there are 12 days between the last regional match and the first state tournament match. The heart and soul of this idea is to take all of the state tournament NON-qualifiers and the junior varsity wrestlers and enter them into a tournament called the “Last Chance Qualifier” (LCQ). The basis is as follows:
1. Have two bracketed tournaments. One for AAA schools and one for AA/A schools.
2. Both of these tournaments could be held at the same location either during the down weekend or it could be held Wednesday and Thursday of state tournament week at Big Sandy. It would be another money maker and could draw a good crowd, especially if held at Big Sandy.
3. All non-state tournament qualifiers and junior varsity wrestlers would compete in a single elimination tournament. The winner in each weight class gets to compete in the state tournament.
4. The LCQ champions could either fill state tournament byes or be pigtailed in against a regional 4th place winner.
5. The regional 4th place winner with the worst record could be the wrestler given the pigtailed LCQ match. The winner advances and the loser drops to consolation.
6. The LCQ state tournament qualifier could score points for their team if deemed as such by the knights of the wrestling round table. As for JV qualifiers, they could score points for their JV team. There would NOT be two wrestlers in the same weight class scoring points for their school’s varsity team. Managing Varsity and JV team scores is already done successfully at the WSAZ. Both the WSAZ and the State Tournament are held in the same building by the same crew.

The CURRENT problems this could solve are as follows:

1. Ranked wrestlers in the toughest regions are not qualifying. For example, in AAA Region 4, the top four wrestlers often place at the state tournament. It is very possible the 5th place winner could also be good enough to place at the state tournament. The ranked wrestlers would be given another chance through the LCQ. We should all want the best wrestlers in the state to be competing in the state tournament.
2. Often enough, there is one to ten junior varsity wrestlers throughout the state that are better than most of their weight class’s competition. They are currently behind numerous state champions or place winners on their team. If given the opportunity, they could place in the state tournament. The LCQ gives them this opportunity. We should all want the best wrestlers in the state to be competing in the state tournament.
3. Wrestling participation is not good enough. Many young wrestlers quit because they know they cannot make varsity. I do not agree with their thought process, but it is reality. The LCQ gives every wrestler something to hang around for all season long. Keeping these wrestlers involved helps the varsity team and also helps reload for next season.
4. Sometimes wrestlers get sick, get injured, fail to make weight or even fail a skin check on regional tournament weekend. The LCQ gives them a final chance to overcome their given challenge and then wrestle their way into the state tournament. We should all want the best wrestlers in the state competing in the state tournament.
5. The above problems could be solved or at least lessened without pursuing another complicated regional re-alignment that would impact all sports.

In the following days, a barrage of supporting examples will be provided to clearly show that we are NOT putting together the best state tournament that we could.

The LCQ could begin as soon as next season if somebody wanted to host it. The only aspect that could probably not be implemented next season is getting the LCQ champion into the state tournament. This would require approval, rule changes, probably a full review of what the other 49 states do, etc, etc. In reality, it is just getting a maximum of 14 wrestlers added to the existing state tournament. It shouldn’t be that hard.

PS: This is NOT Bearhugger's idea............so it should be OK to look into and hopefully do. WV can become a leader.

[Repoman1304]

I love this idea! It would definitely make the state tournament more fun to watch. I also can think of two personal examples that could have changed the podium picture for sure last year and possibly this year. I hope someone picks up on this in WV and your right the money making possibilities are huge!

[aaacoach90]

Heres a quick and easy one and its very simple math.
Number of schools. AA Has 10 more . Send top 3 to AAA and bottem 3 to A. EVERYONE in with 32 man brackets and AA has a pigtail if needed.
Seed the brackets like NJ Pa and others lead wrestling states do.
3 State Champions and teams
AAA. 29+3= 32
AA. 3 - 6 = 33
A. 29+3=32

[Bearhugger]

Heres a quick and easy one and its very simple math.
Number of schools. AA Has 10 more . Send top 3 to AAA and bottem 3 to A. EVERYONE in with 32 man brackets and AA has a pigtail if needed.
Seed the brackets like NJ Pa and others lead wrestling states do.
3 State Champions and teams
AAA. 29+3= 32
AA. 3 - 6 = 33
A. 29+3=32

So I understand, is this the top three schools or the top 3 individuals in each weight class?

[aaacoach90]

Heres a quick and easy one and its very simple math.
Number of schools. AA Has 10 more . Send top 3 to AAA and bottem 3 to A. EVERYONE in with 32 man brackets and AA has a pigtail if needed.
Seed the brackets like NJ Pa and others lead wrestling states do.
3 State Champions and teams
AAA. 29+3= 32
AA. 3 - 6 = 33
A. 29+3=32

So I understand, is this the top three schools or the top 3 individuals in each weight class?

The top 3 AA schools by population with wrestling would move to AAA which are.
Lincoln County High School871
Winfield High School861
Oak Hill High851
And the bottem 3 AA schools go to A which are.
Clay County High School551
Oak Glen High School544
Petersburg High School466

[Bearhugger]

Heres a quick and easy one and its very simple math.
Number of schools. AA Has 10 more . Send top 3 to AAA and bottem 3 to A. EVERYONE in with 32 man brackets and AA has a pigtail if needed.
Seed the brackets like NJ Pa and others lead wrestling states do.
3 State Champions and teams
AAA. 29+3= 32
AA. 3 - 6 = 33
A. 29+3=32

So I understand, is this the top three schools or the top 3 individuals in each weight class?

The top 3 AA schools by population with wrestling would move to AAA which are.
Lincoln County High School871
Winfield High School861
Oak Hill High851
And the bottem 3 AA schools go to A which are.
Clay County High School551
Oak Glen High School544
Petersburg High School466

Lincoln County qualified 2 wrestlers
Winfield qualified 9 wrestlers
Oak Hill qualified 4 wrestlers

[neverwas22]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

[Repoman1304]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

Work harder is great if you can guarantee an even playing field for all but you can't. I've seen more favoritism and politics come into play the last five years than ever before. I've taught my son to work four times as hard because of it. Wrestling used to be a sport where the best we're rewarded but just like everything else that isn't the case anymore. This Last Cancel Qualifier, I believe, would really help grow the numbers in this sport.

[neverwas22]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

Work harder is great if you can guarantee an even playing field for all but you can't. I've seen more favoritism and politics come into play the last five years than ever before. I've taught my son to work four times as hard because of it. Wrestling used to be a sport where the best we're rewarded but just like everything else that isn't the case anymore. This Last Cancel Qualifier, I believe, would really help grow the numbers in this sport.

How is the playing field not even? Sure the regional alignment and seeding is whacky, no question. But does every wrestler not have opportunities to wrestle off for a starting spot? Does every varsity wrestler not have a chance to qualify at a regional tournament? Sure, some people have tougher roads than others, but everyone has the opportunity to be a state champion.

[Bearhugger]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

There are many JV wrestlers better than varsity wrestlers. Bring yourself up to speed.

[KDunbar]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

Work harder is great if you can guarantee an even playing field for all but you can't. I've seen more favoritism and politics come into play the last five years than ever before. I've taught my son to work four times as hard because of it. Wrestling used to be a sport where the best we're rewarded but just like everything else that isn't the case anymore. This Last Cancel Qualifier, I believe, would really help grow the numbers in this sport.

But would you have to have your teams coaches permission to participate? Unfair practices and favoritism might still win out in some cases, if they truly exist.
Not making a negative comment, but I was a little surprised that only one person per weight class would move forward. I know there will always be some situations that can't be corrected. However, in AAA at 152 lbs., two wrestlers ranked in, at least, the top 8 are missing the State, possibly because of the current regional "misalignment".

[neverwas22]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

There are many JV wrestlers better than varsity wrestlers. Bring yourself up to speed.

Great!! Doesn't change anything. Win your wrestle off. Do you not think this is an issue in other states? Are there kids on teams in PA or OH that are JV but better than varsity wrestlers on other teams in their districts? Two states that have been doing the sport right for many many many years, but have nothing like a LCQ. Wonder why....

[neverwas22]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

Work harder is great if you can guarantee an even playing field for all but you can't. I've seen more favoritism and politics come into play the last five years than ever before. I've taught my son to work four times as hard because of it. Wrestling used to be a sport where the best we're rewarded but just like everything else that isn't the case anymore. This Last Cancel Qualifier, I believe, would really help grow the numbers in this sport.

But would you have to have your teams coaches permission to participate? Unfair practices and favoritism might still win out in some cases, if they truly exist.
Not making a negative comment, but I was a little surprised that only one person per weight class would move forward. I know there will always be some situations that can't be corrected. However, in AAA at 152 lbs., two wrestlers ranked in, at least, the top 8 are missing the State, possibly because of the current regional "misalignment".

I am of the mindset that you have a wrestle off, and the winner is the starter. No exceptions. Every program i have been around has done things this way. I think playing favorites harms the sport. I will agree that the regional alignment is bad and will negatively impact competition at the state tournament to a degree. But letting JV kids go to the regionals or state tournament just because they can beat other qualifiers is absurd.

[Bearhugger]

Work harder is great if you can guarantee an even playing field for all but you can't. I've seen more favoritism and politics come into play the last five years than ever before. I've taught my son to work four times as hard because of it. Wrestling used to be a sport where the best we're rewarded but just like everything else that isn't the case anymore. This Last Cancel Qualifier, I believe, would really help grow the numbers in this sport.

But would you have to have your teams coaches permission to participate? Unfair practices and favoritism might still win out in some cases, if they truly exist.
Not making a negative comment, but I was a little surprised that only one person per weight class would move forward. I know there will always be some situations that can't be corrected. However, in AAA at 152 lbs., two wrestlers ranked in, at least, the top 8 are missing the State, possibly because of the current regional "misalignment".

I am of the mindset that you have a wrestle off, and the winner is the starter. No exceptions. Every program i have been around has done things this way. I think playing favorites harms the sport. I will agree that the regional alignment is bad and will negatively impact competition at the state tournament to a degree. But letting JV kids go to the regionals or state tournament just because they can beat other qualifiers is absurd.

The 2017/2018 season has yielded MORE JV wrestlers beating MORE state tournament qualifiers than before. 2017/2018 has yielded MORE byes in the state tournament than ever before. People CLAIM they want the best wrestlers in the state tournament. It ain't happening. That is what is absurd.

[vortexfan]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

There are many JV wrestlers better than varsity wrestlers. Bring yourself up to speed.

Great!! Doesn't change anything. Win your wrestle off. Do you not think this is an issue in other states? Are there kids on teams in PA or OH that are JV but better than varsity wrestlers on other teams in their districts? Two states that have been doing the sport right for many many many years, but have nothing like a LCQ. Wonder why....

Just because those other two states your talking about doesn’t do the LCQ, doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing to try,maybe just maybe WV can start something and other states may try it too. Wv could take the lead in innovation for wrestling to grow. Maybe it’s a problem with other states that we just don’t know of yet.

[vortexfan]

But would you have to have your teams coaches permission to participate? Unfair practices and favoritism might still win out in some cases, if they truly exist.
Not making a negative comment, but I was a little surprised that only one person per weight class would move forward. I know there will always be some situations that can't be corrected. However, in AAA at 152 lbs., two wrestlers ranked in, at least, the top 8 are missing the State, possibly because of the current regional "misalignment".

I am of the mindset that you have a wrestle off, and the winner is the starter. No exceptions. Every program i have been around has done things this way. I think playing favorites harms the sport. I will agree that the regional alignment is bad and will negatively impact competition at the state tournament to a degree. But letting JV kids go to the regionals or state tournament just because they can beat other qualifiers is absurd.

The 2017/2018 season has yielded MORE JV wrestlers beating MORE state tournament qualifiers than before. 2017/2018 has yielded MORE byes in the state tournament than ever before. People CLAIM they want the best wrestlers in the state tournament. It ain't happening. That is what is absurd.

EXCELLENT statement

[mike.carman]

I am of the mindset that you have a wrestle off, and the winner is the starter. No exceptions. Every program i have been around has done things this way. I think playing favorites harms the sport. I will agree that the regional alignment is bad and will negatively impact competition at the state tournament to a degree. But letting JV kids go to the regionals or state tournament just because they can beat other qualifiers is absurd.

The 2017/2018 season has yielded MORE JV wrestlers beating MORE state tournament qualifiers than before. 2017/2018 has yielded MORE byes in the state tournament than ever before. People CLAIM they want the best wrestlers in the state tournament. It ain't happening. That is what is absurd.

EXCELLENT statement

The people on here want the best competition. The WVSSAC doesn't care!

[Bearhugger]

There are many JV wrestlers better than varsity wrestlers. Bring yourself up to speed.

Great!! Doesn't change anything. Win your wrestle off. Do you not think this is an issue in other states? Are there kids on teams in PA or OH that are JV but better than varsity wrestlers on other teams in their districts? Two states that have been doing the sport right for many many many years, but have nothing like a LCQ. Wonder why....

Just because those other two states your talking about doesn’t do the LCQ, doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing to try,maybe just maybe WV can start something and other states may try it too. Wv could take the lead in innovation for wrestling to grow. Maybe it’s a problem with other states that we just don’t know of yet.

Too many people are of the mindset of either:

1. This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay.
2. Other states do not do this, then why should we?????

Other states must be doing something that WV isn't doing because the other states' teachers are not last in pay. Why hasn't WV fixed the teachers' pay issue? "This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay."

[Bearhugger]

The 2017/2018 season has yielded MORE JV wrestlers beating MORE state tournament qualifiers than before. 2017/2018 has yielded MORE byes in the state tournament than ever before. People CLAIM they want the best wrestlers in the state tournament. It ain't happening. That is what is absurd.

EXCELLENT statement

The people on here want the best competition. The WVSSAC doesn't care!

I cannot debate that other than some people have clearly stated on here they want things left how they are.

[Bearhugger]

I think just about everyone agrees that the regional alignment/tournament seeding process needs changed.But every wrestler already has an equal opportunity to achieve their dreams of being state champs. Each team has wrestle offs, each weight class has a regional tournament. It is on the wrestler to work hard enough to be the starter, and it is on the wrestler to work hard enough to qualify. I am sure there are JV wrestlers that are better than starters, I am sure there are non-qualified wrestlers that should probably be placers. Tough. Work harder, get better.

There are many JV wrestlers better than varsity wrestlers. Bring yourself up to speed.

Great!! Doesn't change anything. Win your wrestle off. Do you not think this is an issue in other states? Are there kids on teams in PA or OH that are JV but better than varsity wrestlers on other teams in their districts? Two states that have been doing the sport right for many many many years, but have nothing like a LCQ. Wonder why....

Does PA and OH have byes in their state tournaments? West Virginia does. West Virginia must be doing something wrong for many, many, many years. It is finally catching up and making many fans shake their heads.

[csmith11]

Just curious bearhugger when was the last time wv had a bye at the state tournament and how many years in a row has it been.i didn't know this was a ongoing problem and not a new one. I do happen to see that the 2016 tournament had 38 teams and than 2017 only had 29. I think regionals is a good place to start looking at numbers to spread teams out. .................... I like how Florida does its classifications. It changes per sport so sports like football the school I'm at is 4a I think they go up to 8a or 9a. Now for wrestling there is less schools so they only have 3 divisions so our school is a 2a. So what they do is split it straight into thirds and that's the divisions. I think wv could easily imply that and both divisions would have enough wrestlers. I still think wv doesn't have the numbers to have more than a one class state tournament.

[TheBoxer]

Great!! Doesn't change anything. Win your wrestle off. Do you not think this is an issue in other states? Are there kids on teams in PA or OH that are JV but better than varsity wrestlers on other teams in their districts? Two states that have been doing the sport right for many many many years, but have nothing like a LCQ. Wonder why....

Just because those other two states your talking about doesn’t do the LCQ, doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing to try,maybe just maybe WV can start something and other states may try it too. Wv could take the lead in innovation for wrestling to grow. Maybe it’s a problem with other states that we just don’t know of yet.

Too many people are of the mindset of either:

1. This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay.
2. Other states do not do this, then why should we?????

Other states must be doing something that WV isn't doing because the other states' teachers are not last in pay. Why hasn't WV fixed the teachers' pay issue? "This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay."

And some of us just understand of practicality of things.
Question 1) is WVSSAC going to allow JV athletes to compete in post season.
Answer: No
Reason: WVSSAC is going to govern all sports the same. We should count our blessings that they allow us to let JV wrestlers wrestle in varsity events. Wrestling is one of the few sports where this is allowed. and I Agree that not allowing JV to participate in events would set the sport back but I also know it is easier for WVSSAC to rule all sports the same. We have exemptions on JV in varsity events AND on outside events. I would hate for that all to go away because we don't know how to shut up.

Question 2) Is there going to be a LCQ.
Answer: No
Reason: Schools all have to Pay for their athletes to attend post season events. everything else can be fund raised by the team for extra events and overnights. Post season is school paid. LCQ would have to be Post season so there is extra expense for the school systems. Not all school systems can afford this as many are scraping to get by now. So if all cant do it none will.

Question 3) Can we turn the Bracketed tournament into an individual tournament and hold a WVSSAC Duals tournament?
Answer: No
Reason: Same as LCQ. Duals State Tournament would be post season

Question 4) is there going to be a regional realignment
Answer: Yes
Reason: After the 2020 season schools will be reclassified. They will then determine the best way to distribute the population across all sports. AAA region 1 or Region 4 will be the new issue in inequality.

Question 5) Will we go to an all class tournament or a 2 regional system. (putting these together because the reason is the same for both)
Answer: No
Reason: There is money being made off each regional tournament. and the state tournament. Either one of these reduces the number of tournaments. Options that involve taking money away from those making the decisions will go no where.

Question 6) Can there be 3 state tournaments (one per class).
Answer: doubtful but still possible
Reason: Of all the questions asked this is the only one that doesn't add expense to the school systems. doesn't take away money from those making it and doesn't make it harder to govern by causing differences in this sport compared to others. But someone would need to champion this effort and sell it hard.

Last Question) is coming on here complaining about the same thing over and over going to change the sport the way we want?
Answer: No but is impacting participation on this forum
Reason: WVSSAC is likely not reading this. Most coaches have even stopped participating on here. as is evident of only 11 first place votes being cast for the most recent team rankings. The coaches are sick of the same thing over and over so they stop coming on here voting, or posting scores. You take pride in annoying them they take pride in ignoring you.

[figure4match]

Just because those other two states your talking about doesn’t do the LCQ, doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing to try,maybe just maybe WV can start something and other states may try it too. Wv could take the lead in innovation for wrestling to grow. Maybe it’s a problem with other states that we just don’t know of yet.

Too many people are of the mindset of either:

1. This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay.
2. Other states do not do this, then why should we?????

Other states must be doing something that WV isn't doing because the other states' teachers are not last in pay. Why hasn't WV fixed the teachers' pay issue? "This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay."

And some of us just understand of practicality of things.
Question 1) is WVSSAC going to allow JV athletes to compete in post season.
Answer: No
Reason: WVSSAC is going to govern all sports the same. We should count our blessings that they allow us to let JV wrestlers wrestle in varsity events. Wrestling is one of the few sports where this is allowed. and I Agree that not allowing JV to participate in events would set the sport back but I also know it is easier for WVSSAC to rule all sports the same. We have exemptions on JV in varsity events AND on outside events. I would hate for that all to go away because we don't know how to shut up.

Question 2) Is there going to be a LCQ.
Answer: No
Reason: Schools all have to Pay for their athletes to attend post season events. everything else can be fund raised by the team for extra events and overnights. Post season is school paid. LCQ would have to be Post season so there is extra expense for the school systems. Not all school systems can afford this as many are scraping to get by now. So if all cant do it none will.

Question 3) Can we turn the Bracketed tournament into an individual tournament and hold a WVSSAC Duals tournament?
Answer: No
Reason: Same as LCQ. Duals State Tournament would be post season

Question 4) is there going to be a regional realignment
Answer: Yes
Reason: After the 2020 season schools will be reclassified. They will then determine the best way to distribute the population across all sports. AAA region 1 or Region 4 will be the new issue in inequality.

Question 5) Will we go to an all class tournament or a 2 regional system. (putting these together because the reason is the same for both)
Answer: No
Reason: There is money being made off each regional tournament. and the state tournament. Either one of these reduces the number of tournaments. Options that involve taking money away from those making the decisions will go no where.

Question 6) Can there be 3 state tournaments (one per class).
Answer: doubtful but still possible
Reason: Of all the questions asked this is the only one that doesn't add expense to the school systems. doesn't take away money from those making it and doesn't make it harder to govern by causing differences in this sport compared to others. But someone would need to champion this effort and sell it hard.

Last Question) is coming on here complaining about the same thing over and over going to change the sport the way we want?
Answer: No but is impacting participation on this forum
Reason: WVSSAC is likely not reading this. Most coaches have even stopped participating on here. as is evident of only 11 first place votes being cast for the most recent team rankings. The coaches are sick of the same thing over and over so they stop coming on here voting, or posting scores. You take pride in annoying them they take pride in ignoring you.

Well said Boxer!!

Every STATE has their weak regions when it comes to wrestling. WV isn't any different. Changing the Region alignment is a present fix even in projections of 2020. Long term problem is our most populated regions within our State isn't picking up enrollment on the Youth or High School level. Who's problem is that? If you want to make something better you must start from the bottom up...

[Bearhugger]

Just because those other two states your talking about doesn’t do the LCQ, doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing to try,maybe just maybe WV can start something and other states may try it too. Wv could take the lead in innovation for wrestling to grow. Maybe it’s a problem with other states that we just don’t know of yet.

Too many people are of the mindset of either:

1. This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay.
2. Other states do not do this, then why should we?????

Other states must be doing something that WV isn't doing because the other states' teachers are not last in pay. Why hasn't WV fixed the teachers' pay issue? "This is how it has always been, this is how it needs to stay."

And some of us just understand of practicality of things.
Question 1) is WVSSAC going to allow JV athletes to compete in post season.
Answer: No
Reason: WVSSAC is going to govern all sports the same. We should count our blessings that they allow us to let JV wrestlers wrestle in varsity events. Wrestling is one of the few sports where this is allowed. and I Agree that not allowing JV to participate in events would set the sport back but I also know it is easier for WVSSAC to rule all sports the same. We have exemptions on JV in varsity events AND on outside events. I would hate for that all to go away because we don't know how to shut up.

Question 2) Is there going to be a LCQ.
Answer: No
Reason: Schools all have to Pay for their athletes to attend post season events. everything else can be fund raised by the team for extra events and overnights. Post season is school paid. LCQ would have to be Post season so there is extra expense for the school systems. Not all school systems can afford this as many are scraping to get by now. So if all cant do it none will.

Question 3) Can we turn the Bracketed tournament into an individual tournament and hold a WVSSAC Duals tournament?
Answer: No
Reason: Same as LCQ. Duals State Tournament would be post season

Question 4) is there going to be a regional realignment
Answer: Yes
Reason: After the 2020 season schools will be reclassified. They will then determine the best way to distribute the population across all sports. AAA region 1 or Region 4 will be the new issue in inequality.

Question 5) Will we go to an all class tournament or a 2 regional system. (putting these together because the reason is the same for both)
Answer: No
Reason: There is money being made off each regional tournament. and the state tournament. Either one of these reduces the number of tournaments. Options that involve taking money away from those making the decisions will go no where.

Question 6) Can there be 3 state tournaments (one per class).
Answer: doubtful but still possible
Reason: Of all the questions asked this is the only one that doesn't add expense to the school systems. doesn't take away money from those making it and doesn't make it harder to govern by causing differences in this sport compared to others. But someone would need to champion this effort and sell it hard.

Last Question) is coming on here complaining about the same thing over and over going to change the sport the way we want?
Answer: No but is impacting participation on this forum
Reason: WVSSAC is likely not reading this. Most coaches have even stopped participating on here. as is evident of only 11 first place votes being cast for the most recent team rankings. The coaches are sick of the same thing over and over so they stop coming on here voting, or posting scores. You take pride in annoying them they take pride in ignoring you.

Unfortunately, you are probably correct in Questions 1 through 6.

As for the last question:

1. Bearhugger joined WVMAT in 2012. I have looked at team polls at 2011 and further back. The coaches' poll voting was low back then.

2. If any coach would cease posting THEIR team's scores and/or cease voting on polls because of ANYTHING Bearhugger (or anybody else) says on the forum, then that given coach should quit and quit now. That is pathetic!!!!!

3. I do not quit posting because of what my detractors may say or think. Wrestling taught me to be able to stand alone. However, I am not standing alone. I have more GOOD friends now than I ever have had.................all because of wrestling...............all because of this forum.

I have never had the thought of "annoying a coach" come across my mind. If coaches get annoyed, it might because something I say (or others say) hits home with them. For example: If I say something about strength training, don't hate me because your wrestlers are weak, out of shape and lazy. Put them to work! Give them some off season exercises to do. Tell them that they need to be able to do "this and that" on the first day of practice next season.

I will never forget about last season when I made a 100% positive comment about a "High School XYZ" having 100% of their returning state tournament qualifiers back on the team and in the line up. Another coach from "High School ABC" got all bent out of shape. He got bent out of shape because his team didn't have everybody back. He lost some kids. HE drew attention to that about his team, not me.

In conclusion, everybody please go back and read my comment #2.

Good luck this weekend.

[Bearhugger]

PLEASE NOTE THE DATES OF THE FIRST POSTING ON THIS DISCUSSION TOPIC. We talked about this TWO years ago and it has been brought up again as a problem that needs to be addressed TWO years later. However, it was brought up by another person in the past 1-2 days.

[matcoach90]

Some good points made here on both sides of the issue. I think before we entertain the idea of a LCQ tournament, we fix the regional alignments. I believe that issue would take care of a lot of problems. I both like and dislike the idea of a LCQ... in some ways it reminds me of the "everyone gets a trophy" mindset... in other ways it makes some sense. I just don't know... or maybe it's just Monday. LOL

[brentsams]

So if they are overweight at the regional, they get a second chance?... I don't think so.

[greencrush]

Question 5)Will we go to an all class tournament?
Answer: No
Reason: There is money being made off each regional tournament. and the state tournament. Either one of these reduces the number of tournaments. Options that involve taking money away from those making the decisions will go no where

I'm always baffled by this. Combining the two 16 man brackets into one 32 man bracket would not decrease revenue.
In fact, if it were going to have ANY impact at all on revenue, it would increase it, since there are more rounds in a 32 man bracket, and more total matches.

A 32 man bracket, placing top 8, has 62 matches. A 16 man bracket, placing top 6, has 29 matches.
29x2=58
58<62

So, explain how a 32 man bracket causes a loss of revenue, relative to two 16 man brackets?
This statement is repeated on here over with no thought to back it up.

[Bearhugger]

So if they are overweight at the regional, they get a second chance?... I don't think so.

I never thought of that but I would say no. What about if a kid injured his thumb and needed another week to get cleared by a doctor? Rules would have to be laid out.

Have the girls' states and the LCQ on the same weekend, in the same building. The mats would be set up already. One event would bring more fans for the other event. It could become one of the most exciting weekends of the season

There is no "participation trophy" aspect to anything if competing and winning is required.

[WrestlingMom4453]

I understand both sides of this issue. I could make an argument for both sides of this issue. This happens in all sports. Not just wrestling. The two best teams do not always play for the state title in football or basketball. The best track athletes are not always at the state meet. And so on with all sports in all states at all levels. As my dad taught me at a young age, “life is not fair, get used to it”. Just another one of the many life lessons wrestler’s learn in this sport.