Forfeits

[guard0544]

yeah...what IndyHart said.

[Bearhugger]

Forfeits happen because not enough kids go out for wrestling. That is the root cause of the problem. If you do not have a 126 pounder, doing away with the 126 pound weight class is not the solution.

[Cummings]

Coach Stump has seen a great deal of wrestling through the years and I respect his opinion. However I believe the number of weight classes is fine the way it is.
As much as I don't like to say this, it's my job to get kids out and fill the lineup. After I get the kids out, I gotta figure a way to keep them from quitting. I can speak for our school but not others. We increased our initial numbers this season to 21. Over the last 2 months 5 have quit. It "seems" the way things are in our community there are plenty of distractions. These distractions are easier, more popular, quicker to satisfy, and plentiful.

I like the idea of dual tournaments, quads, tris, and duals. It allows my younger wrestlers to get more mat time and allows my older guys with experience to see more competition from around the state. If our state organized a dual state tournament I would support it.

I agree with guard0544 earlier when he said coaches would sit a kid and give up a forfeit if it didn't cost his team as many points.

I can only guess but I believe we would have better numbers at Hurricane High if we had more tradition and a lot less distractions. This is only a guess and I'm very capable of being wrong. So maybe one day we'll get there or not.
I've seen several small schools fill or nearly fill their lineup. Kudos to them and their programs. If one or two weight classes were removed that's a couple more kids who may not wrestle.
Independence, Greenbrier West, Cameron, Roane County have a solid lineup of kids with a lot less numbers in the hallways.

[Gator]

Coach Cummings, David Jeffrey set up the WV Duals trying to attract teams for a dual tournament and has even suggested trying to make it a state dual championship.

Seems like teams either didn't like the idea or don't want to come to Parkersburg. Not sure which it is.

[Cummings]

Good point Gator.

We attended the WV duals in 2012. There was a team there (cvca) with a fella named Thomasello. Coach Jeffrey brought in top competition and still does. It's a great tournament and runs well.
Who knows how to get the wvssac to back this and make it a "State Duals Championship?" Sounds like a great idea.
I seem to remember a thread about that last year and Coach Jeffrey made a good point. Basically somebody has to have the manpower to run this tournament and financially reward the wvssac.
Back to the topic of forfeits. I need a 113 and 120 pounder.

[Gator]

Coach, Bearhugger knows some good JV kids!

[lovesthesport]

I think a duals state tournament would be a great addition to the season. However, we have to keep the bracketed tournament as well, because some really great wrestlers would not become State Champions with the team format simply because of some teams not having a full roster or because they don't belong to a strong team. We have had many Champions come from teams that would never be in the hunt in a dual style tournament.

[Bearhugger]

The state tournament as it is now is king. A dual team championship is nothing but a welcomed addition.

[Bearhugger]

CAUTION, read carefully. This is an old discussion topic resurrected.

Let me begin by noting this this topic was originally created by Coach Stump on January 9th, 2016. THAT WAS OVER THREE YEARS AGO!!!!!

What has changed? Regarding forfeits and byes, very little. There has been zero changes to the sport within West Virginia. No creativity! No new approach! No change!


Not only does the problem still exist, it has gotten worse in many ways. I provided a three year history of the Winner's Choice and the amount of byes keep going up!!!!!!!!!!! No change of approach.

No increase in duals. More WV schools heading OUT of state to get matches because tournaments "are full" or other tournaments keeping doing the "same ole stuff" and dwindle away. The perfect example is the multi-decade running Kanawha County Tournament. Doc Miller is on the forum asking "is this an event this season or not". Somebody commented that it is not happening.

I like the comment made on here THREE YEARS ago by "DLife". This individual made the observation that each team has their 3-6 top wrestlers. This is still how it is. Look at the podium pictures for all tournaments. DLife went on to say that part of a coach's job is to promote the sport and fill the team.

I love the comment on here from "lovesthesport". This individual is enthusiastic about the NEW idea for the creation of a NEW WV duals tournament. The new idea hasn't gotten of the ground yet.

There is commentary here talking about the "WV Duals" and how it had high expectations THREE years ago as being the launching pad for a WV State Duals meet. What has happened in three years? The WV Duals is no longer in exististence. We now have the "South Classic" and it is predominantly out of state schools.

This three year old discussion topic is filled with many ideas. No action. No positive change. Same old ways of doing things and more forfeits and byes.

A few are still fighting the fight.

By the way, my tolls have doubled on the Turnpike but I still drive up here to watch the kids, post a few pictures on Facebook and I have a ranking system that many enjoy. Some hate it too. The more negative comments I get, the greater the fuel I have.

In conclusion, I want to thank "lovesthesport". This person posts a lot about me. Whereas they only have 56 posts, I decided to check through these posts. Seven posts pertained to bashing Bearhugger. Two pertained to bashing others about hiding behind screen names. Ten pertained to Hotel rooms. Two pertained to mat maids paying/not paying to enter the Winner's Choice. That was a discussion topic two years ago. We then got into "wrestling related" comments, made by "lovesthesport" that were good. That is how I came across this three year old topic pertaining to forfeits. Thank you "lovesthesport" for leaving the bread crumbs, to blaze the trail, for Bearhugger to find this topic.

It is amazing how negatives can lead to positivies.

[Gator]

Avoid forfeits at 106....invite Point Pleasant!

[MarshallCounty12]

I honestly think 12 weight classes would help, but I also think that one of two things need to happen...
First, WV could go to a one class state bracket tournament with a classed based dual tournament starting around the last week of January. This would assure that a state championship is something that is coveted. The dual tournament would be something that rewards those who get participation up.

The other idea is a 3 class bracket state tournament at the end of the year with a state dual tournament around the beginning of the year. For too many little schools getting someone out of the regionals is a pipe dream. With 3 classes single a schools can sell kids on the ability to win a state title if they participate. Take a school like Cameron for instance, it’s arguable they would have a better chance to qualify wrestlers in region 1 AAA... that just shouldn’t be. (I used them as an example bc they are from my home county, I went too JM)

[wv16refgk]

Over the years I always remember parents and wrestlers and even coaches complaining about two things when it came to wrestling!!! Weigt loss and the time they were at a tournament every single weekend out of the season, wrestling one time and waiting for several hours to wrestle a second match etc etc!! when IndyHart says there needs to be more really good duels and more recognition for the duals to develop rivals that mean something!! I am not bashing tournaments like the WSAZs but the fact that we have made every weekend a big 5 way where you get more and more matches and spend all day doing it seems to be the wrong approach!!! Even referees complain about the time away from their families and and all of the things ive mentioned but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. Several of the schools now wrestle head to head duals without being gone all days and it seems to me that a match like Parkersburg/Parkersburg South is a whole more interesting to watch than say an all day mediocre match that has no bearing anything but more matches. I knew before I posted this that people will say that the way to get better is to spend more time on the mats and we need to see all of the competition every where before we head to the REgionals but for my money I would rather see duals matches thatpair two really good teams than to sit all day waiting to wrestle.GK Just a thought

[forthekids]

George, I agree whole heartly. Been saying for years duals should count 1/2 weigh in and each team required to wrestle 8 duals. Preferably one in front of student body.
2. Dual tournaments should count as 6 weigh ins. A couple of year ago Pa change their rules and all the PA teams pulled out because of it. They don’t like them either.
3. Promotes the duals! Make them fun, the community will back you. See it all the time. 1 and 1/2 compare to 10, 11 hours. No Brainer
4. Talked to a old coach that had a program who set records that will probably never be matched. He made a great point. No one wrestles dual anymore and it is killing the sport. When He coach kid loss a match he had 3 to 4 days to think about,get back in room and change it. now we just tell him to brush it off and send him back at there 4 more times that day. In a sense we teaching losing is acceptable. Thought that was a good outlook.
5. Bracket tournaments teach you win to survive. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
6. Do think a state duals tournament is good idea.
Looking forward to see you and catching up.
Love ya brother.

[southside_tiger]

Having forfeits be worth less than Falls would lead to more forfeits. In close duals or dual tournaments there would be incentive to give the other team a forfeit rather than send out your inexperienced wrestler if you know the other teams wrestler is likely going to get a fall.

I like the idea of reducing the number of weight classes. The biggest problem is at the two lowest weights.
Id like to see something like: 110, 118, 125, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 182, 195, 220, 285 if reducing one weight class....or 110, 118, 126, 134, 142, 150, 160, 170, 182, 195, 220, 285 if reducing two weight classes.

I disagree with eliminating the two lowest classes. Between 1992 and 2017 they're were only 3 times 103/106 and 112/113 had a forfeit at states.Tell me again how they are the problem.

[mscoach128]

1. 110
2. 118
3. 125
4. 133
5. 140
6. 148
7. 156
8. 165
9. 175
10. 190
11. 220
12. 285

[russling]

Eliminating 103 and 112 would cause the elite WV lightweights to

1. Leave WV to wrestle in other states
2. Hold back a year or two prior to HS

[Bearhugger]

Eliminating weight classes is not a solution. In addition, removing the lower weight classes hurts the girls.