Tough Weekend for WV at Super 32

[timamos]

Super 32 was in Myrtle Beach, SC this year

Winning at Super 32 is easier said than done folks.
Congratulations to the wrestlers who trained and put their toes on the line. COVID eliminated Fargo and Akron, The WVSSAC eliminated Ironman, Powerade, and Beast. Super 32 was probably the only chance for WV wrestlers to earn national recognition in what has already been a very strange year.


WV Boys High School had a tough weekend with zero placers. This ended a 3 year streak of having a champion and multiple placers.
WV Girls High School kept a 3 year streak of having at least 1 placer with Kaylie Hall earning a 4th place spot on the podium.
WV Middle School had a RUNNER UP this year with BROCK KEHLER.

Individual results courtesy of FloArena

High School Division
Gavin Quiocho 160 Parkersburg South 12th 3-2 DNP
Dylan Tachoir 120 Martinsburg 11th 2-2 DNP
Hunter Dodson 152 Spring Mills 12th 3-2 DNP
Michael Dolan 126 Spring Mills 12th 1-2 DNP
Nevin Milburn 170 Spring Mills 11th 0-2 DNP
Seth Anderson 170 George Washington 11th 1-2 DNP
Ian Bush 182 Cameron 11th 3-2 DNP
Dakota Hagedorn 160 University 10th NO SHOW
Justin Bartee 138 Point Pleasant 11th 0-2 DNP
Colton Spradling 138 Saint Albans 10th 1-2 DNP
Matthew Mcafee 126 St. Albans 9th NO SHOW
Devin Easton 120 Parkersburg South 12th 2-2 DNP
Nicholas Serrano 138 Huntington 12th 1-2 DNP
Nathan Ford 132 Parkersburg South 10th 1-2 DNP
Kaleb Ramirez 132 Riverside 11th 0-2 DNP
Gabriel Carman 145 Wheeling Park 11th 1-2 DNP
Matthew Dolan 106 Spring Mills 10th 2-2 DNP
Derek Raike 145 Point Pleasant 11th 2-2 DNP
A.J. Dempsey 170 Huntington 12th 3-2 DNP
Isaac Short 120 Point Pleasant 12th1-2 DNP
Joseph Cook 138 Riverside 11th NO SHOW
Jude Childers 152 Parkersburg South 11th 0-2 DNP
Gunner Andrick 113 Point Pleasant 8th 2-2 DNP


Middle School Division
Ben McComas 90 John Adams 8th NO SHOW
Brycen Arthur 145 Blennerhassett 8th 0-2 DNP
Brock Kehler 180 Mountaineer 8th 3-1 RUNNER UP


Girls Division
Kaylie Hall 148 Romney 8th 2-2 4TH PLACE
Zoey Salmons 108 Cabell Midland 10th 1-2 DNP

[indywvu]

Is Brock the son of former WVU wrestler Ryan Kehler?

[Heath]

Thanks for posting this. Congrats to all the wrestlers.

[WVU]

Is Brock the son of former WVU wrestler Ryan Kehler?

Yes. His younger brother Brody is also tough as nails.

[Pottstd]

While it certainly is unfortunate that we did not have any placers in the high school division, I do not think these results are a negative. Over the last few years, we have had a strong showing with placers and champions from a known group of wrestlers. Amos, Hall, Roberts, and Best were all well established national contenders that, while still exceedingly impressive, really only did what was expected of them when placing at or winning tournaments such Super 32.

In this group of wrestlers, I see young men that may be well known in West Virginia, but likely arent known to anyone outside of the state or immediately surrounding areas. However, looking at the results almost all of them were able to get into these matches and compete, in most cases winning a match or two, against top talent from all over the country. Yes, it would be good to have several places and champions every year, but I think sending a fairly large, particularly for the size of our state, group of wrestlers who can all compete its an even better indicator of the strength of wrestling going on in the state than a few big names catching the spotlight.

I'm proud of everyone who tested themselves this weekend, and hopefully they can carry over this experience into a successful, if strange, wrestling season.

[KDunbar]

While it certainly is unfortunate that we did not have any placers in the high school division, I do not think these results are a negative. Over the last few years, we have had a strong showing with placers and champions from a known group of wrestlers. Amos, Hall, Roberts, and Best were all well established national contenders that, while still exceedingly impressive, really only did what was expected of them when placing at or winning tournaments such Super 32.

In this group of wrestlers, I see young men that may be well known in West Virginia, but likely arent known to anyone outside of the state or immediately surrounding areas. However, looking at the results almost all of them were able to get into these matches and compete, in most cases winning a match or two, against top talent from all over the country. Yes, it would be good to have several places and champions every year, but I think sending a fairly large, particularly for the size of our state, group of wrestlers who can all compete its an even better indicator of the strength of wrestling going on in the state than a few big names catching the spotlight.

I'm proud of everyone who tested themselves this weekend, and hopefully they can carry over this experience into a successful, if strange, wrestling season.

I believe that's why Tim's original post started off with the statements "Winning at Super 32 is easier said than done folks. Congratulations to the wrestlers who trained and put their toes on the line." I'm certain he would agree with you that there was nothing negative associated with these results.
Having been at the Super 32 the previous 3 years and fortunate enough to see what the 4 guys mentioned above did, plus others such as Humphreys, it wasn't "easy" for them either. And while they expected and hoped to do well, it still took monumental efforts to do so against all the other wrestlers with equal credentials and mind sets.

[Pottstd]

While it certainly is unfortunate that we did not have any placers in the high school division, I do not think these results are a negative. Over the last few years, we have had a strong showing with placers and champions from a known group of wrestlers. Amos, Hall, Roberts, and Best were all well established national contenders that, while still exceedingly impressive, really only did what was expected of them when placing at or winning tournaments such Super 32.

In this group of wrestlers, I see young men that may be well known in West Virginia, but likely arent known to anyone outside of the state or immediately surrounding areas. However, looking at the results almost all of them were able to get into these matches and compete, in most cases winning a match or two, against top talent from all over the country. Yes, it would be good to have several places and champions every year, but I think sending a fairly large, particularly for the size of our state, group of wrestlers who can all compete its an even better indicator of the strength of wrestling going on in the state than a few big names catching the spotlight.

I'm proud of everyone who tested themselves this weekend, and hopefully they can carry over this experience into a successful, if strange, wrestling season.

I believe that's why Tim's original post started off with the statements "Winning at Super 32 is easier said than done folks. Congratulations to the wrestlers who trained and put their toes on the line." I'm certain he would agree with you that there was nothing negative associated with these results.
Having been at the Super 32 the previous 3 years and fortunate enough to see what the 4 guys mentioned above did, plus others such as Humphreys, it wasn't "easy" for them either. And while they expected and hoped to do well, it still took monumental efforts to do so against all the other wrestlers with equal credentials and mind sets.

Certainly, I was not trying to acuse anyone of being down on the wrestlers. Just trying to point out that these results still show a solid group of West Virginia wrestlers being competative. I also was not trying to claim placing or even wrestling at Super 32 was an easy feat. I have not doubt that it took every bit of drive, skill, and determination the 4 above possessed. That just how expectations work, given their rankings and past accomplishments, it was not a surprise to anyone they were successful, and if they had not placed it would have been surprising. Having a set of talent like that is impressive for any state, let alone West Virginia given our limited population.

[Heath]

It was a pretty impressive class. Throw Frazier in there and there was five wv kids ranked in the top 15 or so of their weight classes.

[Bearhugger]

Based on the facts presented in the results, going 3-2 at Super 32 was the best of the best.

Now lets look at this from a deeper perspective. Fourteen weight classes. 106 to 152 is the bottom half and 160 to 285 is the top half.

WV had four wrestlers finish 3-2 at Super 32.

Dodson at 152 (bottom half but on the cut off line).

Quiocho at 160 (top half but on the cut off line).

Dempsey at 170.

Bush at 182.

Last season, WV had four wrestlers place!!!!

Hall, 2nd & Roberts, 3rd at 152 (bottom half but on the cut off line).

Best at 160. He was illegally slammed but chose to default. I believe this dropped him to placing 6th.

Amos at 220 was champion.

Without going through the specifics, WV also always has a better showing at Fargo in the upper weights.

Now we must ask ourselves why are some wrestlers at 126 and some wrestlers are 182. The only difference I can see is the 182 might be taller, fatter or more muscled up.

The last variable I can see is that the weight classes in the "bottom half" usually have many more entrants. Going 3-2 vs 0-2 should not be skewed due to the number of people in your weight class. I do believe this is a bigger factor in placing. I do believe that Joey "The Animal" Miller went 5-2 at Super 32 in 2019 and did not place. 5-2 is very, very good at Super 32!!

The numbers show that WV's bigger kids always tend to do better.

Why is that??

[Pottstd]

The easiest explanation for this would likely be that West Virginia's older wrestlers end up in those upper weight classes. For instance, Brayden Roberts wrestled 145 his Jr. year, 126 his sophmore year, and 120 his freshman year. I'm not sure how many years he wrestled in Super 32, but he placed what would be his senior year (which is the only time he wrestled 152 or that cutoff weight). Amos has always been in a bigger weightclass, and not belittling his coaching or anything, but is likely not a great statistic to use for comparisons like this because he is an outlier. But similar comparisons can be made with Best and Hall (who did not wrestle into the cutoff of upper weight classes until they were upperclassman.

Even looking at this years competators you mentioned: Bush Quiocho, Dodson, Dempsey, etc. ... they are all 11th or 12th graders. (I am aware that many of the kids who did not place or have winning records in these years were upper classmen as well). This would seem to me to show that older wrestlers do better at Super 32 (and most tournaments in general), and also shows that normally wrestlers just get bigger as they age so the end up at or near these middle/upper weights.

Lastly, I will note that only 4 of the WV registrants (in the high school division) were underclassman at all. Which would also tend to make me think that perhaps in many cases younger wrestlers who may be able to compete well or place hold off on attending until they are more confidnet and older pushing them into those weights as noted above.

Lastly, I would also say that for whatever reason I tend to see more parity at lower weights. For instance, even when you look at dominant wrestlers ranked #1 they tend to take more loses in lower weight classes. A perfect example of this is Amos. He seemed to very much separate himself from everyone else, even natioanlly, at 220. With very few matches being close, and even those close matches not really being in doubt. Whereas some one like Stevo Poulin who was ranked in the P4P rankings has taken several loses over this summer. This does not mean he is better or worse, but simply an example that wrestlers in the lower weight classes tend to have more upsets occur it seems. This would transition into not ranked wrestlers matches as well. Meaning its hard to put together longer runs of wins.

[timamos]

In a recent online interview one of the best wrestlers to lace em up in WV talked about Super 32 being incredibly tough. His three trips there do not support the narrative that the lighter weights are somehow more difficult or there is more parity. Doesn’t support the position that being ranked as an upperweight is a pathway to placing at Super 32. I would argue that being ranked at a tournament like Super 32 puts a bigger target on these kids’ backs.

The Steveo comparison seems to suggest that someone has not been paying close attention to 285 this year. Here is a snapshot of what 285 looks like BEFORE high school season begins:

Preseason #1 Copass lost 2x at a duals tournament this summer (once to Horne) and was uninvited to WNO

His replacement was the new #2 Horne (the guy Braxton beat in super 32 finals at 220 last year) beat the new #1 Hamilton at WNO

#3 Copass beat #2Hamilton at Super 32 semis
#3 Copass beat #1 Horne at Super 32 Finals

New #2 Horne loses to unranked wrestler at Elite 8
New #2 Horne beats #1 Copass at Elite 8

195 may be an even bigger mess.


I do agree with Bearhugger that it is statistically more difficult to place in a more populated bracket. The number of entrants does not affect how quickly a wrestler loses twice.

[ringworm14]

I'd have to agree whole-heartedly that the "easiest" route to being dominant is in the upper weight classes. I feel this is case at all levels of competition, and this can be seen both at NCAA tournament and trickle down below.

Let's just look at the last NCAA wrestling tournament over last two runs. I'd imagine we can call the line of "lower" weights vs. "upper" weights about anywhere. I'll draw it at 174+ are the big boy.

In the last two years, 165 and down averages 2.67 wrestlers per bracket placing top 4 that were not seeded in the top 4.
174 and up averages just 0.875.


Furthermore, in those two years, the "lower weights" only had 1-4 make the podium once, while the upper weights have had it happen 3 times.

I think the proof is in the pudding. Dominant wrestlers, at all levels, have an easier route (albeit none of it is easy) as an upperweight vs. a lowerweight.