JV Trivia - Week Ending January 14th

[RWWS]

Great post

[Bearhugger]

I posted this earlier in another thread for Bearhugger. I guess he did not see it so here it is again.

Email: wvssac@wvssac.org.
Web: http://www.wvssac.org.
Phone: 304-485-5494.
Fax: 304-428-5431

As someone posted above, participation is low in many sports now. Your crusade for the JV wrestler is just one facet. I think voltair has a valid point, the rich will get richer. Yes I understand you are advocating for the "Best State Tournament Possible." I think you fail to respect or see what many coaches have done and are doing for our sport now.
Please call the WVSSAC. Tell them you want to speak to Mr. Wayne Ryan concerning wrestling. The majority of the staff are new so good luck asking questions about the past. It's much more enjoyable to be the spectator and comment on how you would make things so much better. Show up, pay your admission fee, and have an opinion. Start volunteering at your local wrestling team's practices and work with the kids you are advocating for. You will be rewarded more for this internally than spending time on the forum.

I recall reading on another forum where Brentsams spoke with Mr. Ryan in passing. He indicated that Mr. Ryan was NOT aware of the potential of byes happening in the state tournament. If this is accurate, then this tells me that there has been zero communication to the WVSSAC regarding this matter.

I live in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Thank you for the contact information.

[Bearhugger]

will AAA have enough wrestlers for a 16 man state tournament bracket?

There are a few weight classes where the answer is no. Although I do want to double check these, here is what we were facing earlier in the season:

Region 2 113 = 2 wrestlers

Region 2 120 = 1 wrestler

Region 3 138 = 3 wrestlers

Region 3 170 = 2 wrestlers

In addition, there are many weight classes with only 4 wrestlers. As the season goes on, these numbers could go up or down.

[voltair]

For argument sake, lets say every team in each region has a full team. Would we be having the discussion about jv wrestlers? No. So why not look at ways to correct the problem of low participation. One problem is coaches. There are coaches that are hurting the sport, whether they are old school and won't try new things or have grown weary and are disconnected to parents and wrestling making it impossible for them to recruit. Second problem is school administrations that don't like "wrestling" I have seen it first hand were a principle is not willing to support the wrestling program and make it impossible to succeed. Third the WVSSAC rule regarding the maximum number of weigh Ins. Right now I believe that number is 18. If a team wrestles on Saturday where there are more than five teams it is counted as two weigh ins. Now lets say we change that to one weigh in per day, irregardless of the number of teams. Take the maximum number of weigh in to say 10. Then allow every team to have a dual match that would not take away a weigh in, every week or every other week. So a team would not be wasting a weigh in to wrestle another team that doesn't have a full roster. At the same time it puts fans in the bleacher to watch their school participate in a match that doesn't take all day. Kids would get more mat time, more experience and possibly more kids would come out for the sport knowing that for 3 months not every weekend will be taken away by wrestling. This would foster a growing fan base and growing participation in rural areas where there is little to do in way of entertainment. I know some will say, shrinking population, shrinking schools, however I see triple a schools not filling a complete team. And I see small schools filling complete teams plus. It is easy to just say let jv wrestle and blame goes to the WVSSAC if they don't allow it. Its hard to get out in the community and garner support, go school board meetings to garner support, fight administrations across the state that make it difficult for coaches. I do believe that if we would band together as a community that loves wrestling and do all these things together we would see a major change in both participation and competition in this sport. So what thought do you have that you are willing to spearhead?

[Frank]

I think the idea of jv wrestlers being ranked in the polls is a good one. If a wrestler is winning the matches to be recognized and ranked then he or she should be. You get what you deserve.

As far as JV in region and qualifying for the state.
using college football and Ohio state as an example. I don't believe you should be allowed to play for a national title if you didn't win you conference. By the way I'm and Ohio state fan but Penn state should have went. Never Michigan.
But with an open mind I read bearhugger post and agreed with most of them and saw value them. But as I see it allowing jv wrestlers the opportunity to wrestle in regions in order to eliminate byes in the state tournament is no more then a quick fix which might and probably will produce more problems down the road.
I do believe some issues do need to be dealt with and some Wvssac rules need to be updated.
Here are some topics I have discussed with a few friends verbally.

We need to add more value to athletics.
1 for the simple just to battle obesity
2 athletes need to been seen as a part of our academic program
A. In couragement for better grades.
b. To me personally it built a level of confidence, that to some may be annoying, but I credit for much of my success in life. Egsaderated ,I can't spell, example would be. If I was knowledgeable enough in medicine to perform a life saving operation on bearhugger and didn't have the confidence that I have do to middle school and high school athletics, then JV wrestlers wouldn't have a voice and Gator would just be buying my dinner. There would be no bearhugger.and of course TFOP in wherever would stil be just as annoying.

Wvssac should do away with the term of out of season practice.
1. Today kids are going to train out of season. It is just safer and cheaper for the kids to be allowed to train with a BOE certificatied coach or trainer.
Its money well spent on our kids future. Unless someone deems it to be cheaper to spend that money on the legal system and rehab. I know not all non athletes are drugies. Just another egvateration.
2. Wvssac and the boe should make rules and enforce rules on coaches not allowing athletes to be multiple sport athletes. Coaches and athletic directors should encourage it. The only reason I see that a middle school or high school athlete shouldn't be participating in more than one sport is ability or a college coach says not too.
3. The way our school system hire coaches needs to change. I believe a coaching position should be part of the job description of a certain percentage of teachers that are employed ant a certain secondary school depending on the number of students and sport programs. Whether it is devided by departments or if the majority of the coaches come from the PE department. As example coach red retires. So principal jones has to hire a teacher to fill his slot. Well teach to be hired should be the best candidate to fill the job description. Coach red taught math and coached golf. So if you want coach reds old job u need to be able to teach math AND coach golf.
I am not against citizen coaches, I was one. But I believe the majority of coaches should work in the school in which there athletes attend. I believe it helps build a better relationship between coach and athletes. And school sprint, something as a parent and fan I see various from school to school.

[Frank]

As I said before these are shared ideas and there is more to come.

[Bearhugger]

For argument sake, lets say every team in each region has a full team. Would we be having the discussion about jv wrestlers? No. So why not look at ways to correct the problem of low participation. One problem is coaches. There are coaches that are hurting the sport, whether they are old school and won't try new things or have grown weary and are disconnected to parents and wrestling making it impossible for them to recruit. Second problem is school administrations that don't like "wrestling" I have seen it first hand were a principle is not willing to support the wrestling program and make it impossible to succeed. Third the WVSSAC rule regarding the maximum number of weigh Ins. Right now I believe that number is 18. If a team wrestles on Saturday where there are more than five teams it is counted as two weigh ins. Now lets say we change that to one weigh in per day, irregardless of the number of teams. Take the maximum number of weigh in to say 10. Then allow every team to have a dual match that would not take away a weigh in, every week or every other week. So a team would not be wasting a weigh in to wrestle another team that doesn't have a full roster. At the same time it puts fans in the bleacher to watch their school participate in a match that doesn't take all day. Kids would get more mat time, more experience and possibly more kids would come out for the sport knowing that for 3 months not every weekend will be taken away by wrestling. This would foster a growing fan base and growing participation in rural areas where there is little to do in way of entertainment. I know some will say, shrinking population, shrinking schools, however I see triple a schools not filling a complete team. And I see small schools filling complete teams plus. It is easy to just say let jv wrestle and blame goes to the WVSSAC if they don't allow it. Its hard to get out in the community and garner support, go school board meetings to garner support, fight administrations across the state that make it difficult for coaches. I do believe that if we would band together as a community that loves wrestling and do all these things together we would see a major change in both participation and competition in this sport. So what thought do you have that you are willing to spearhead?

I am just responding to your first sentence for now.

My opinions on JV wrestlers is as follows:

1. A few JV wrestlers are better than 60 to 99% of the entire VARSITY wrestlers in the entire state.

2. Allowing the JV wrestlers to wrestle in tournaments all season long is great. It also has brought the awareness that "JV Wrestler A" is better than a few RANKED wrestlers.

3. I know the polls are for fun. If they are for fun, then they should reflect who is winning more, who is beating who, etc.

Rumor has it that the majority of the coaches do not want JV wrestlers ranked. I realize this is another detail in the rankings that requires more effort.

I also realize that maybe some coaches do not want to recognize that a JV wrestler beat their boy.

The buzz is out there. When the placement matches are happening in the state tournament, there will be plenty saying "our JV kid beat that wrestler from XYZ high school. The XYZ kid is is wrestling for 3rd".

[Bearhugger]

I think the idea of jv wrestlers being ranked in the polls is a good one. If a wrestler is winning the matches to be recognized and ranked then he or she should be. You get what you deserve.

As far as JV in region and qualifying for the state.
using college football and Ohio state as an example. I don't believe you should be allowed to play for a national title if you didn't win you conference. By the way I'm and Ohio state fan but Penn state should have went. Never Michigan.
But with an open mind I read bearhugger post and agreed with most of them and saw value them. But as I see it allowing jv wrestlers the opportunity to wrestle in regions in order to eliminate byes in the state tournament is no more then a quick fix which might and probably will produce more problems down the road.
I do believe some issues do need to be dealt with and some Wvssac rules need to be updated.
Here are some topics I have discussed with a few friends verbally.

We need to add more value to athletics.
1 for the simple just to battle obesity
2 athletes need to been seen as a part of our academic program
A. In couragement for better grades.
b. To me personally it built a level of confidence, that to some may be annoying, but I credit for much of my success in life. Egsaderated ,I can't spell, example would be. If I was knowledgeable enough in medicine to perform a life saving operation on bearhugger and didn't have the confidence that I have do to middle school and high school athletics, then JV wrestlers wouldn't have a voice and Gator would just be buying my dinner. There would be no bearhugger.and of course TFOP in wherever would stil be just as annoying.

Wvssac should do away with the term of out of season practice.
1. Today kids are going to train out of season. It is just safer and cheaper for the kids to be allowed to train with a BOE certificatied coach or trainer.
Its money well spent on our kids future. Unless someone deems it to be cheaper to spend that money on the legal system and rehab. I know not all non athletes are drugies. Just another egvateration.
2. Wvssac and the boe should make rules and enforce rules on coaches not allowing athletes to be multiple sport athletes. Coaches and athletic directors should encourage it. The only reason I see that a middle school or high school athlete shouldn't be participating in more than one sport is ability or a college coach says not too.
3. The way our school system hire coaches needs to change. I believe a coaching position should be part of the job description of a certain percentage of teachers that are employed ant a certain secondary school depending on the number of students and sport programs. Whether it is devided by departments or if the majority of the coaches come from the PE department. As example coach red retires. So principal jones has to hire a teacher to fill his slot. Well teach to be hired should be the best candidate to fill the job description. Coach red taught math and coached golf. So if you want coach reds old job u need to be able to teach math AND coach golf.
I am not against citizen coaches, I was one. But I believe the majority of coaches should work in the school in which there athletes attend. I believe it helps build a better relationship between coach and athletes. And school sprint, something as a parent and fan I see various from school to school.

My intent for JV wrestling in the regionals is strictly to allow JV kids who are beating other ranked kids, the opportunity to continue to prove they are better, join the best in the region, fight it out on the mat, qualify, go to the state tournament and fight it out again.

The JV ideology is simply to allow the best to compete.

Let the best compete and wrestle it out.

Settle it on the mat.

Byes in the state tournament is a whole different problem.

[Frank]

I really like Vtoirs idea about not counting week day duels as weigh ins.
Think about it
If you allow 5, two day tournaments a season, that's a Friday and Saturday tournament. Then you allow one duel or tri a week during season.

[Frank]

At max that's 12 matches a week. And I have never been to a tournament where u get 5 matches on Friday and 5 on Saturday s.
Plus with all the forfeits going around I doubt if anyone could get 12 matches in 12 duels.

[Gator]

At max that's 12 matches a week. And I have never been to a tournament where u get 5 matches on Friday and 5 on Saturday s.
Plus with all the forfeits going around I doubt if anyone could get 12 matches in 12 duels.

Good point Frank. I think that is why you see fewer Duals nowdays. I like watching tris and quads. In tournaments you don't always see the head to head match ups you want. In duals, you get them.

[Jbee]

The Martinsburg JV Football Team approves of this thread.

They plan on being at Wheeling Island in 2017 playing the varsity for the State Championship.

[captaincoalman]

If there was ever a thread that was a waste of time this is it. Wvssac will never allow multiple entries in the same weight class for the state tournament.

[Bearhugger]

If there was ever a thread that was a waste of time this is it. Wvssac will never allow multiple entries in the same weight class for the state tournament.

Is the rule "one wrestler per weight class per school" or "one wrestler per weight class per team"?

[Bearhugger]

If there was ever a thread that was a waste of time this is it. Wvssac will never allow multiple entries in the same weight class for the state tournament.

I do not think the WVSSAC realizes what mess wrestling has become.

[Bearhugger]

Its WSAZ time. One weight class looks pretty interesting to me. We shall resume this discussion on Saturday night/Sunday morning.

[indyms]

Why not this? Look at swimming in WV for an example of using “JV athletes”. Each event you can enter 3 swimmers from your team, although there limitations on the number of individual and / or relay events 1 swimmer may enter. Here you can have Swimfast HS, Swimslow HS, and Swimtruefanofparkersburg HS each entering, for example the 50 freestyle, with 3 kids from each school. There are nine kids, then lets just say there are 7 other schools in the Regional but they only have 1 or 2 kids to enter in this particular event. Come regionals the 50 free will have 20 kids entered in the event. We know 9 of the kids only represent 3 schools and remaining 11 are a mix of 7 other schools. Swimfast HS takes 1st, SwimTFOP takes 2nd and 3rd. Top three move onto State, but the caveat in swimming is not only do the top 3 regional finisher advance the next top 12 from all regionals based on fastest times advance to the State meet. So there are 4 regionals with 3 kids automatic are 12 + the other 12 fastest swimmers for 24 kids at the State meet for this event. Swimslow HS gets lucky and they have a kid you get into the bonus advancement. State meet comes, Preliminaries – swimslow HS kid qualifies through to the B Final, Swimfast kid makes the B final, and swimTFOP get one into the A final and one into the B final.
What in the heck does this have to do with wrestling??? Bear with me hugger. Both class divisions (AA/A and AAA) have 4 regionals. Still allow the top 4 kids to advance to State. However, each team may enter two kids per weight class into the Regional Tournaments. There would be no way of getting a bonus advancement to the State Tournament as is done in swimming, but by allowing a “JV wrestler” to compete at the Regional Tournament you are allowing the opportunity for a kid to qualify to the State Tournament. Now some Regionals this could mean a pass since there are so few kids in each weight class, in other Regions it could mean all hell is about to break loose. There could be a point where in AA/A Region III (or any class and region for that matter) there are 32 kids in a weight class, top 4 moving on. Or do you open the qualifying to top 6 moves on? Then have a 24 man bracket at State? Probably / possibly, not, because you may or may not get 6 in a Regional and then you are back to byes at State if the State bracket would be 24 man. BUT allowing 2 kids per school, per weight class, would fill the void as the brackets are shaped now.
This is not an OMG that “JV Wrestler” is going to get embarrassed, hurt, might hurt Mr. Stud, or lose his confidence. Coach’s discretion...if you have Timmy in 126lbs and he is a returning state placer, then you have little Tommy who is wrestling because he wants to try to do something different but has the ability of a wooden box then he should probably gain some experience before he gets entered into the Regional. Coach Ego would have to be left at the door. On the other hand, you have Joey sitting there who drills with Timmy and has beaten state qualifiers, well lace em up Joey you going to Regionals.
There needs to be a change moving forward. Any time you open the floor to discussion there will be those who are stuck in the ways of doing things the way they have always been done, those who feel this is a cyclical event, and then there are those who will offer opinions / ideas / for even further discussion. But until a “taskforce” is formed to present the solution / opinions to the WVSSAC nothing is going to change. Bringing something to their attention as a united front of the wrestling community might bend their ears and get some consideration to look at the situation of wrestling in its current state of affairs and where those in the wrestling community believe the sport should move in the future. The bottom line.... having byes at the Regional and State Tournaments equates to less ticket sales, less concession stand revenue, and less dinero for host and into local economies.