Middle School State Championships

[coach_williams]

I just wanted to call to the attention of ms coaches an issue I keep seeing brought up...middle school state championships. Many of us, including myself, have long considered WSAZs to be the best option that we have for a true ms state tourney. Others argue that it can't be a state championship because not all teams attend, which is fair considering typically less than 60 of 80+ middle school teams attend.

My proposal is this. In talking with a WVYWA board member he indicated to me that the goal of the WVYWA is to split their meet in the near future (hopefully as soon as next year) and have their youth state championship (K-5) and a true middle school state championship (6-8). I am under the understanding that they have spoken with some people at the WVDE and WVSSAC about getting their proposed middle school tournament sanctioned as a true state championship already, so the seed has been planted.

The primary benefit of getting the WVYWA middle school section turned into a WVSSAC sanction state championship is that it will give middle school coaches leverage against athletic directors and administrators who won't let their teams attend WSAZs because it isn't a true state championship and it is so far away and expensive to get rooms overnight. By having a sanctioned state championship it places the pressure on administration to answer for why they won't let their middle school wrestlers attend the state championship for their sport.

What can we do?

First, be vocal about wanting this to happen. Talk to your fellow coaches about it. Talk to your wrestler's parents about it. Spread the word that we want a true, sanctioned middle school state championship. Get them to be vocal about wanting it too.

Second, let your voice be heard by those who will make this decision. You can call the WVSSAC and talk to the guy who is over wrestling, Ray Londeree (pronounced Lon-de-ray). He is a great guy. Just call 304-485-5494 and ask to speak to him. Tell him how much you think a middle school state championship would benefit the sport in our state.

Third, support the WVYWA by getting your wrestlers to attend a regional qualifier and the WVYWA championships. Nothing will speak more to the WVSSAC regarding the need for a true state championship than fully loaded brackets at what everyone hopes will be recognized as the state championship tournament.

[mscoach4]

A middle school state championship would be fantastic but the hands of the WVSSAC are tied by the WVDE which is hesitant to hold athletic state championships because they somewhat attempt to follow the middle school concept. The concept emphasizes intra-murals and does not promote competetive sports. Because competetive middle school sports were already in place from the days of the junior high system in WV we got to keep them. In actualality we are probably lucky to have what we have now. Good luck in going to battle with the WVDE on this one. From past track record I don't see this happening anytime soon.

[coach_williams]

A middle school state championship would be fantastic but the hands of the WVSSAC are tied by the WVDE which is hesitant to hold athletic state championships because they somewhat attempt to follow the middle school concept. The concept emphasizes intra-murals and does not promote competetive sports. Because competetive middle school sports were already in place from the days of the junior high system in WV we got to keep them. In actualality we are probably lucky to have what we have now. Good luck in going to battle with the WVDE on this one. From past track record I don't see this happening anytime soon.

I do know they have been in contact with some people from WVDE, so hopefully that can be resolved. As parents of wrestlers and coaches we have the ability to let our voice be heard. Getting a few thousand emails and phone calls would go a long way towards letting those in power over the situation know what is wanted by the citizens.

I should add that I really have no dog in this race. My son is an 8th grader this year so if/when this becomes a reality it will benefit him none. It will however benefit a sport that I love, so it still matters to me.

[uknowme]

I dont know who they are talking with at the WVDE or even who is doing the talking, but I know who I would be getting ahold of to make this happen or at trying to get the ball rolling. There is a Putnam County middle school wrestling coach that actually works for the WVDE and it pretty big there. I think I would be contacting him.

[coach_williams]

I dont know who they are talking with at the WVDE or even who is doing the talking, but I know who I would be getting ahold of to make this happen or at trying to get the ball rolling. There is a Putnam County middle school wrestling coach that actually works for the WVDE and it pretty big there. I think I would be contacting him.

Good advice. Thanks

[mscoach70]

Here is the problem with a Middle School State Championships. We would have to have a state championship for every sport. As soon as the WVDE and WVSSAC say that wrestling could have a state tournament. People will want to have a football states, basketball states, etc. They would also probably try to break the different schools up into classes depending on the number of students.

[coach_williams]

Here is the problem with a Middle School State Championships. We would have to have a state championship for every sport. As soon as the WVDE and WVSSAC say that wrestling could have a state tournament. People will want to have a football states, basketball states, etc. They would also probably try to break the different schools up into classes depending on the number of students.

This may sound a bit obnoxious, but I could care less about what football, basketball, etc. wants or thinks they should have. Wrestling has been the bastard child of sports in this state for years. We need to do what is best for our sport and stop giving a diddly about how it affects other sports. I have yet to be in a forum where they were discussing changes for football or basketball and people expressed concern for how it will impact wrestling or how wrestling will react to the changes they cause. We need to fight for what benefits our sport and let the chips fall where they may.

[guard0544]

I do not see any reason to get that WVYWA organization comingled in with the middle school teams. For the reasons already stated, a middle school state championship seems unlikely. But if they were going to sanction one, it would make a whole lot more sense to just sanction the WSAZ tournament and then get the dozen or so teams who do not already attend to show up.

[TJV]

WVYWA involvement would ensure that every middle school aged wrestler in the state has the opportunity to compete for a state title. There are plenty of champion-caliber middle school wrestlers in our state that do not even have the opportunity to compete on a MS team. Thus they are not able to attend the WSAZ.

[guard0544]

If you wish to hold a tournament that is open to all middle school wrestlers and also allow those not on a middle school team to compete, more power to you. But, I do not see the logic behind calling it a Middle School State Championship if it is open to people who are not even on middle school teams. There are a lot of regulations in place governing middle school wrestling. Those regulations would not be applicable to wrestlers who are not affiliated with a middle school team. If they are going to sanction any type of Middle School championship...I am fairly confident it would be limited to...Middle School wrestlers. Otherwise, it would basically be a Jr States tournament but limited to a specific age range. Don't we already have that?

[TJV]

Maybe it would be called a "WV State MS Championship" because they would all attend WV middle schools. Give it some time.... the logic may overwhelm you at first.

[guard0544]

The name of it doesnt really matter. Sure, call it the WV Middle School State Championship...because everyone in it is middle school age. But good luck getting them to sanction it as such when not all participants are wrestling for an actual middle school team, and thus not subject to their regulations throughout the season. Just wont happen. But...go for it.

[coach_williams]

I do not see any reason to get that WVYWA organization comingled in with the middle school teams. For the reasons already stated, a middle school state championship seems unlikely. But if they were going to sanction one, it would make a whole lot more sense to just sanction the WSAZ tournament and then get the dozen or so teams who do not already attend to show up.

My guess is WSAZ has never been sanctioned as a ms state championship because the Archer's have never sought sanctioning. It's not like the WVSSAC goes looking for meets to sanction. The Archer's would have to seek it themselves. I honestly don't know if they have or have not.

Why not support an organization that wants to run a ms state championship? WVYWA wants to do this and is an advocate for the sport in our state. Not taking anything away from anyone else or any other tournament, but if someone steps up and wants to do things to make our sport better then we need to support that.

[coach_williams]

The name of it doesnt really matter. Sure, call it the WV Middle School State Championship...because everyone in it is middle school age. But good luck getting them to sanction it as such when not all participants are wrestling for an actual middle school team, and thus not subject to their regulations throughout the season. Just wont happen. But...go for it.

Quite frankly I am confused by what you are saying. Where are you getting that middle school aged wrestlers who do not wrestle for a middle school team would be in the middle school state championship?

[guard0544]

I gathered that from the below post. But, if that is not the case, and it would be limited to actual middle school teams that are governed by wvssac regulations, then it would have a better chance.

"by TJV » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:37 pm
WVYWA involvement would ensure that every middle school aged wrestler in the state has the opportunity to compete for a state title. There are plenty of champion-caliber middle school wrestlers in our state that do not even have the opportunity to compete on a MS team. Thus they are not able to attend the WSAZ."

[coach_williams]

I gathered that from the below post. But, if that is not the case, and it would be limited to actual middle school teams that are governed by wvssac regulations, then it would have a better chance.

"by TJV » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:37 pm
WVYWA involvement would ensure that every middle school aged wrestler in the state has the opportunity to compete for a state title. There are plenty of champion-caliber middle school wrestlers in our state that do not even have the opportunity to compete on a MS team. Thus they are not able to attend the WSAZ."

I see. I don't know where he got that. A ms wrestler does not have to be on a ms team to compete at Jr States or at the current WVYWA tournament, but I am thinking that if they get sanctioning then they will require the wrestlers be on a ms team like they do in high school. In fact, I assume the WVSSAC would mandate that requirement for sanctioning. To be honest, I have never seen it in writing that a wrestler be on a ms team to compete at WSAZs, but I assume it is a rule somewhere.

[dontlikethelights]

Another issue I foresee is will the wvssac be okay with another organization running the state tournament as they don't necessarily have the same agenda or interests.

[coach_williams]

Another issue I foresee is will the wvssac be okay with another organization running the state tournament as they don't necessarily have the same agenda or interests.

I don't foresee any issues there. The WVSSAC doesn't actually run state championships, they just make sure the organization running them complies with requirements and guidelines.

[J.W.]

I know that nobody likes being compared to another state, but if you look at the middle school league in Kentucky, they put together the KSWA and got buy in from the KHSAA to be the umbrella for middle school wrestling. They have a combined club team and school team league that works really well. It actually saved the KHSAA money because they mandated USA cards and sanctioning so they were relieved of insurance. They also mandated all club team and middle school coaches get a usa coaches card that ensured all coaches had to have a background checks. All coaches also had to complete same training (bloodborne pathogen, concussion training) in order to coach. They run an entire league with districts, region and states that works really well. It is actually a great model for growing the sport because it gives options for kids that don't have school teams. KHSAA still has oversight but zero headaches or additional responsibility. It is doable, but WVSSAC would have to be willing to allow middle school competitive events.

[mike.carman]

I know that nobody likes being compared to another state, but if you look at the middle school league in Kentucky, they put together the KSWA and got buy in from the KHSAA to be the umbrella for middle school wrestling. They have a combined club team and school team league that works really well. It actually saved the KHSAA money because they mandated USA cards and sanctioning so they were relieved of insurance. They also mandated all club team and middle school coaches get a usa coaches card that ensured all coaches had to have a background checks. All coaches also had to complete same training (bloodborne pathogen, concussion training) in order to coach. They run an entire league with districts, region and states that works really well. It is actually a great model for growing the sport because it gives options for kids that don't have school teams. KHSAA still has oversight but zero headaches or additional responsibility. It is doable, but WVSSAC would have to be willing to allow middle school competitive events.

I really like this. I am sure the WVYWA board would go down this path. Its funny to me that middle school events are considered intramural/non-competitive when they keep score and have conference champions as well(that's all sports).

In any case, I also don't understand the reluctance of people to speak their minds to our State Representatives in the WVDE and the WVSSAC or the assumptions that if they are contacted in mass they still won't do anything. Yes, one or two voices will make no difference, but 1000 voices are hard to sweep under the rug. A lot of small individual efforts can make a huge difference. If this is something we want, we need to make our voices heard in mass. The more people ask for it now the quicker it will happen. If we take the stance to let someone else do it, it could take a lot longer. The WVYWA is committed to this and wants it to happen, but they need the help of everyone in the state to do this. Quit worrying about what might happen or whether or not they will say "no". We may get a few "no"s at first. Its like a kid pestering their parent, and I know we have all been there, and you finally give in because you just don't want to hear it anymore. Same principle, just a larger scale, and we are the kids .