Wvywa 12 yr olds

[matcoach90]

What advantage did they have?

Here is some facts... Some 7th grade wrestlers who are 12 are younger than 12 year olds in 6th grade... Most Middle Schools can barely field a team. Most middle schools can't even fill out a roster, let alone have kids to even practice. Also, most middle school coaches volunteer so that the school can even have a team because nobody else would do it. Youth programs and wrestling clubs get much better training and practice time and that is where my son learned to wrestle. More first hand experience and observation.

The advantage was that they saw more difficult competition wrestling varsity as a 12 year old, wrestled stronger/older kids throughout the season, and depending where you go to school, better coaching. However, I realize not every middle school has great coaching. Anyway, you can't tell me that that varsity 12 year old, whether they lost or won during middle school competition, wasn't better prepared via being "forged in the fire". Not unlike taking your wrestlers to compete in PA and OH to hone their skills against better competition instead of living your wrestling life within a 30 mile radius. However, I do understand the lighter/younger wrestler having to get beat all year on varsity, then not being allowed to finally wrestle kids his age at the end of the season. I guess we have some integrity issues with those 12 year olds who are more advanced and choose to take the easy route to trophies and championships instead of continuing to push themselves. Double edged sword...

I don't necessarily think integrity or the lack there of is the driving force here. I think it's fear. Fear of taking a loss or fear of failure or fear that the child will not continue on if they take a bad loss. If they are not prepared to take a bad loss and move on, I submit to you that we as the adults are not doing our jobs in preparing them for this. After all failure is the best teacher. Failure should motivate you to work harder so you don't fail again.

Just my opinion.

Agree... a kid is gonna do what you allow them to do.

[abettnman]

This rule will be suspended for this season and readdressed at our first meeting after the conclusion of the 2017 State Tournament. I encourage anyone who wants to have input or has questions to attend our meeting at the State Tournament immediately following weigh ins on Friday night. As of right now if you are 12 years old you may wrestle 12U regardless of what grade you are in.

The West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association (“WVYWA”) appreciates the feedback on the rule as it relates to Seventh and Eighth Graders. The rule change was vigorously debated by the Region Chairs prior to adoption at multiple meetings. The change to the rule is meant to foster the WVYWA’s two overarching goals. First, to improve the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Second, to prepare our youth wrestlers for high school wrestling. After the first year of the WVYWA, considerable feedback was received related to wrestlers who competed in middle school with nightly practices throughout the season that then dropped down to wrestle the 11/12 division at the WVYWA State Championships. A considerable number of parents and coaches felt and feel that this was a significant advantage to the wrestlers who had middle school coaching and practicing. There was also concern over the ability of 12 year old seventh graders participating on a middle school team to attend a qualifying tournament to establish a base weight for the 11/12 division. Given that wrestlers competing in 9th grade will have to compete against sophomores, juniors and seniors in high school, the rule change was an effort to alleviate the concerns of these coaches and parents, balance competition, and provide a transition from age based divisions in youth wrestling to a singular grade based division (high school). With that said, the WVYWA recognizes the various desires and abilities of the various youth wrestlers and families in the State of West Virginia and will strive to provide responsive decisions and action when necessary to facilitate the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Although the BOD stands behind the rule changed debated and passed and recommends all 7th and 8th graders wrestle in the middle school division, the BOD desires to alleviate any concern West Virginia parents and wrestlers may have related to this rule change. As such, any wrestler that has been effected by this rule and that is otherwise eligible to wrestle the 11/12 division shall be permitted to do so regardless of grade.

Wrestlers desiring to compete in the 11/12 division must still establish their base weight. This can be done a couple of ways. First, through a qualifying tournament held during the season. Second, the wrestler can contact their Region Chair to arrange a date and time to establish base weight in accordance with WVYWA Rules found on http://www.wvmat.com. Last, arrangements are being made for certain member tournaments the week of February 18 and 19 to record base weights for wrestlers. The Brooke Cubs 4th Annual Hannah Mozingo Memorial Tournament and Tony Williams Memorial Tournament in Grafton will both be available to establish base weights. The WVYWA is trying to obtain permission for other tournaments in the State that weekend to record base weights as well. Please check the WVYWA Facebook site to see if more tournaments become available to establish base weights. Finally, the Regional Entry forms will be updated on http://www.wvmat.com to reflect this change.

Thank you for the feedback and the continued support.

West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association Board of Directors

Region I. Todd Shelak – Wheeling Wrestling;
Region II. Chuck Satterfield – East Fairmont Youth Wrestling;
Region III. Anthony Realbuto – Iron Eagles;
Region IV. Tim Casto – Braxton County Youth Wrestling;
Region V. Vint Eden – The Hill Youth Wrestling;
Region IV. Jason Andrick – Knights (Point Pleasant) Youth Wrestling Club.

I don't feel it's right to suspend the rule this year and then put it in play for next year and treat the 11 year olds this year & 12 year olds next year screwed over. That's not right at all. So I hope all the complaining that has happened this year of parents of the 12 year old 7th graders that have wrestled middle school or had choice of wrestling middle keep the complaining going next year.

[abettnman]

I just don't get the issue, if your kid has wrestled all year as a varsity wrestler in middle school, they should wrestle middle school. When they get to high school are you going to complain that the upperclassman are too developed and its not fair and want you kid to wrestle down to middle school? It should be that ALL VARSITY middle school should be required to wrestle middle school no matter what age or grade...any JV or alternates could then choose to go down or wrestle middle school. Also, trust me when I tell you that from my experience, youth wrestlers are more prepared and get wayyyyy more coaching than middle school kids....its very hard to get matches in an open tournament outside of the middle school duals or tournaments, so youth wrestlers usually have way more mat time in that regard. The only advantage for middle school that I see is that they get 5 day a week practices, so they do have more practice time. But overall as a youth my wrestler got more coaching due to the sheer number of coaches and parent volunteers, the wrestler to coach ratio was way better. as a middle schooler, there is usually a max number of coaches allowed in the wrestling room. Just my 2 cents

AGREED !!!!!

[abettnman]

Sounds like a few people just want a cheap title without having to work for it

LOL

[abettnman]

I witnessed this with several wrestlers this past weekend at Jr. States. I know there was a 13-15 and 11-12 age group and you had to wrestle your age... but the 12 year olds that I know of who wrestle Middle School Varsity during the season had a distinct advantage over the other kids in their weight class and age group in most cases. I realize there are exceptions. There should be a rule that if you wrestle varsity during the season, you must wrestle middle school division in the WVYWA. Anyway, that's just my opinion from first hand observations.

The rule we put in place is essentially to do just that. We have suspended the rule for this year only because we were unable to get the rule change to the masses. We will re-evaluate the rule this summer to make sure it is written how we want it. The feeling you have expressed is exactly what we talked about and continue to talk about in our meetings. The reason we suspended the rule for this year is due to the back lash from people not knowing about it. The board voted to suspend this rule based on this information. The rule technically is still the rule, it just won't be enforced this year which allows kids who are 12 years old to wrestle 12U regardless of grade.

In the future, I would like to propose to the board that we adopt this rule. "If you turn 12 before August 1st entering your 7th grade year, you will not be able to compete in 12U division. This introduces a number of verification problems of which I am aware of, however, it aligns with the WVSSAC rule that states," If you turn 15 before August 1st of your 8th grade year, you are ineligible for middle school competition." We would probably need to adopt this rule as well to not encourage hold backs. There is a great deal to discuss, but it would allow kids that enter grades early a chance to compete in an age appropriate tournament. The WVSSAC rule goes on to state the same applies for 16yr old 9th graders for Junior High(which we don't have anymore) and 19yr old Seniors for High School.

It might not be a bad idea to hybrid this rule for all the age groups or something similar. Either way, rest assured we are trying to make the divisions as competitive as possible and try to get kids used to a more High School structured environment to allow for a more smooth transition from elementary to middle school to high school.

I appreciate all opinions expressed both positive and negative. We are striving to do things according to what the people of this state want while trying to conform somewhat to what the WVSSAC is doing as well.

If the rule was put in place then why "suspend" it for this year ?

[mike.carman]

I witnessed this with several wrestlers this past weekend at Jr. States. I know there was a 13-15 and 11-12 age group and you had to wrestle your age... but the 12 year olds that I know of who wrestle Middle School Varsity during the season had a distinct advantage over the other kids in their weight class and age group in most cases. I realize there are exceptions. There should be a rule that if you wrestle varsity during the season, you must wrestle middle school division in the WVYWA. Anyway, that's just my opinion from first hand observations.

The rule we put in place is essentially to do just that. We have suspended the rule for this year only because we were unable to get the rule change to the masses. We will re-evaluate the rule this summer to make sure it is written how we want it. The feeling you have expressed is exactly what we talked about and continue to talk about in our meetings. The reason we suspended the rule for this year is due to the back lash from people not knowing about it. The board voted to suspend this rule based on this information. The rule technically is still the rule, it just won't be enforced this year which allows kids who are 12 years old to wrestle 12U regardless of grade.

In the future, I would like to propose to the board that we adopt this rule. "If you turn 12 before August 1st entering your 7th grade year, you will not be able to compete in 12U division. This introduces a number of verification problems of which I am aware of, however, it aligns with the WVSSAC rule that states," If you turn 15 before August 1st of your 8th grade year, you are ineligible for middle school competition." We would probably need to adopt this rule as well to not encourage hold backs. There is a great deal to discuss, but it would allow kids that enter grades early a chance to compete in an age appropriate tournament. The WVSSAC rule goes on to state the same applies for 16yr old 9th graders for Junior High(which we don't have anymore) and 19yr old Seniors for High School.

It might not be a bad idea to hybrid this rule for all the age groups or something similar. Either way, rest assured we are trying to make the divisions as competitive as possible and try to get kids used to a more High School structured environment to allow for a more smooth transition from elementary to middle school to high school.

I appreciate all opinions expressed both positive and negative. We are striving to do things according to what the people of this state want while trying to conform somewhat to what the WVSSAC is doing as well.

If the rule was put in place then why "suspend" it for this year ?

Our regional chairs were getting a lot of back lash due to the fact that the rule was not published to everyone in a timely manner. Wasn't fair that people didn't find out about it until 3 weeks before regionals.

[mike.carman]

This rule will be suspended for this season and readdressed at our first meeting after the conclusion of the 2017 State Tournament. I encourage anyone who wants to have input or has questions to attend our meeting at the State Tournament immediately following weigh ins on Friday night. As of right now if you are 12 years old you may wrestle 12U regardless of what grade you are in.

The West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association (“WVYWA”) appreciates the feedback on the rule as it relates to Seventh and Eighth Graders. The rule change was vigorously debated by the Region Chairs prior to adoption at multiple meetings. The change to the rule is meant to foster the WVYWA’s two overarching goals. First, to improve the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Second, to prepare our youth wrestlers for high school wrestling. After the first year of the WVYWA, considerable feedback was received related to wrestlers who competed in middle school with nightly practices throughout the season that then dropped down to wrestle the 11/12 division at the WVYWA State Championships. A considerable number of parents and coaches felt and feel that this was a significant advantage to the wrestlers who had middle school coaching and practicing. There was also concern over the ability of 12 year old seventh graders participating on a middle school team to attend a qualifying tournament to establish a base weight for the 11/12 division. Given that wrestlers competing in 9th grade will have to compete against sophomores, juniors and seniors in high school, the rule change was an effort to alleviate the concerns of these coaches and parents, balance competition, and provide a transition from age based divisions in youth wrestling to a singular grade based division (high school). With that said, the WVYWA recognizes the various desires and abilities of the various youth wrestlers and families in the State of West Virginia and will strive to provide responsive decisions and action when necessary to facilitate the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Although the BOD stands behind the rule changed debated and passed and recommends all 7th and 8th graders wrestle in the middle school division, the BOD desires to alleviate any concern West Virginia parents and wrestlers may have related to this rule change. As such, any wrestler that has been effected by this rule and that is otherwise eligible to wrestle the 11/12 division shall be permitted to do so regardless of grade.

Wrestlers desiring to compete in the 11/12 division must still establish their base weight. This can be done a couple of ways. First, through a qualifying tournament held during the season. Second, the wrestler can contact their Region Chair to arrange a date and time to establish base weight in accordance with WVYWA Rules found on http://www.wvmat.com. Last, arrangements are being made for certain member tournaments the week of February 18 and 19 to record base weights for wrestlers. The Brooke Cubs 4th Annual Hannah Mozingo Memorial Tournament and Tony Williams Memorial Tournament in Grafton will both be available to establish base weights. The WVYWA is trying to obtain permission for other tournaments in the State that weekend to record base weights as well. Please check the WVYWA Facebook site to see if more tournaments become available to establish base weights. Finally, the Regional Entry forms will be updated on http://www.wvmat.com to reflect this change.

Thank you for the feedback and the continued support.

West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association Board of Directors

Region I. Todd Shelak – Wheeling Wrestling;
Region II. Chuck Satterfield – East Fairmont Youth Wrestling;
Region III. Anthony Realbuto – Iron Eagles;
Region IV. Tim Casto – Braxton County Youth Wrestling;
Region V. Vint Eden – The Hill Youth Wrestling;
Region IV. Jason Andrick – Knights (Point Pleasant) Youth Wrestling Club.

I don't feel it's right to suspend the rule this year and then put it in play for next year and treat the 11 year olds this year & 12 year olds next year screwed over. That's not right at all. So I hope all the complaining that has happened this year of parents of the 12 year old 7th graders that have wrestled middle school or had choice of wrestling middle keep the complaining going next year.

FYI: My son is one of those 12 year old 7th graders and he is a young one at that birthday is 8/31/2004. He will wrestle the middle school division this year. Our goal is not to win a state championship as an elementary or middle schooler. It's to win a state title in high school. Just saying.

[J.W.]

I think that some of you assume things that are just not true. A comment made about an easy title was made after one of my posts. My son is an 11 year old 5th grader and I said the 12 year Olds should have a choice. So with that being said I am inviting the 7th grader in so there is some tougher competition in the 11 and 12 year old class. If you pull all of those 12's out and into middle school the 11 and 12 division becomes a ghost town. So the 11 and 12 year old division of the West Virginia YOUTH Wrestling Association has nobody in it. Remember it is the YOUTH association not the West Virginia MIDDLE School Championships.

I go on record again saying do a 6th - 8th Grade Championship within 1 or 2 Weeks of the middle school season ending and then the 12 year Olds can wrestle both. More money raised for the WVYWA to spread amongst the state. That was actually supposed to happen this year and it was another late remote to cancel it.

[oroyos]

Enough crying!! This is black and white. This isn't an issue anywhere in the country. If u are a seventh or eighth grader u MUST wrestle middle school division. It's like that everywhere in the country.

[James]

Enough crying!! This is black and white. This isn't an issue anywhere in the country. If u are a seventh or eighth grader u MUST wrestle middle school division. It's like that everywhere in the country.

Not this year

[James]

I think that some of you assume things that are just not true. A comment made about an easy title was made after one of my posts. My son is an 11 year old 5th grader and I said the 12 year Olds should have a choice. So with that being said I am inviting the 7th grader in so there is some tougher competition in the 11 and 12 year old class. If you pull all of those 12's out and into middle school the 11 and 12 division becomes a ghost town. So the 11 and 12 year old division of the West Virginia YOUTH Wrestling Association has nobody in it. Remember it is the YOUTH association not the West Virginia MIDDLE School Championships.

I go on record again saying do a 6th - 8th Grade Championship within 1 or 2 Weeks of the middle school season ending and then the 12 year Olds can wrestle both. More money raised for the WVYWA to spread amongst the state. That was actually supposed to happen this year and it was another late remote to cancel it.

Good thoughts. You are right about the ghost town. Our league championships was this past weekend, I see one weight class that may have had more than 4 in the 11/12 age group. They only posted top 4, all others three or less. They changed age groups, in our league, from 10/11/12 to 11/12 and there was just not enough wrestlers.

[Wrestlewv]

Enough crying!! This is black and white. This isn't an issue anywhere in the country. If u are a seventh or eighth grader u MUST wrestle middle school division. It's like that everywhere in the country.

Not this year

Actually most areas are age based.

[Campion]

The advantage was that they saw more difficult competition wrestling varsity as a 12 year old, wrestled stronger/older kids throughout the season, and depending where you go to school, better coaching. However, I realize not every middle school has great coaching. Anyway, you can't tell me that that varsity 12 year old, whether they lost or won during middle school competition, wasn't better prepared via being "forged in the fire". Not unlike taking your wrestlers to compete in PA and OH to hone their skills against better competition instead of living your wrestling life within a 30 mile radius. However, I do understand the lighter/younger wrestler having to get beat all year on varsity, then not being allowed to finally wrestle kids his age at the end of the season. I guess we have some integrity issues with those 12 year olds who are more advanced and choose to take the easy route to trophies and championships instead of continuing to push themselves. Double edged sword...

I don't necessarily think integrity or the lack there of is the driving force here. I think it's fear. Fear of taking a loss or fear of failure or fear that the child will not continue on if they take a bad loss. If they are not prepared to take a bad loss and move on, I submit to you that we as the adults are not doing our jobs in preparing them for this. After all failure is the best teacher. Failure should motivate you to work harder so you don't fail again.

Just my opinion.

Agree... a kid is gonna do what you allow them to do.

Really? lol... As an adult, I have spent my entire life dealing with failure and adversity bit I continue to overcome and have had a very rewarding life. I have learned from failure and success and so has my children. They know what it is like to fail, but more importantly how to dust yourself off, and get back to it, and succeed. If you wish to make a statement about "other" adults not doing their job??? Wow, because some people believe that a youth wrestling tournament should be based on age and weight? Really??? and FEAR??? Over losing a wrestling match??? Wow, and this is coming from the leader of this association???

[Wrestlewv]

This rule will be suspended for this season and readdressed at our first meeting after the conclusion of the 2017 State Tournament. I encourage anyone who wants to have input or has questions to attend our meeting at the State Tournament immediately following weigh ins on Friday night. As of right now if you are 12 years old you may wrestle 12U regardless of what grade you are in.

The West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association (“WVYWA”) appreciates the feedback on the rule as it relates to Seventh and Eighth Graders. The rule change was vigorously debated by the Region Chairs prior to adoption at multiple meetings. The change to the rule is meant to foster the WVYWA’s two overarching goals. First, to improve the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Second, to prepare our youth wrestlers for high school wrestling. After the first year of the WVYWA, considerable feedback was received related to wrestlers who competed in middle school with nightly practices throughout the season that then dropped down to wrestle the 11/12 division at the WVYWA State Championships. A considerable number of parents and coaches felt and feel that this was a significant advantage to the wrestlers who had middle school coaching and practicing. There was also concern over the ability of 12 year old seventh graders participating on a middle school team to attend a qualifying tournament to establish a base weight for the 11/12 division. Given that wrestlers competing in 9th grade will have to compete against sophomores, juniors and seniors in high school, the rule change was an effort to alleviate the concerns of these coaches and parents, balance competition, and provide a transition from age based divisions in youth wrestling to a singular grade based division (high school). With that said, the WVYWA recognizes the various desires and abilities of the various youth wrestlers and families in the State of West Virginia and will strive to provide responsive decisions and action when necessary to facilitate the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Although the BOD stands behind the rule changed debated and passed and recommends all 7th and 8th graders wrestle in the middle school division, the BOD desires to alleviate any concern West Virginia parents and wrestlers may have related to this rule change. As such, any wrestler that has been effected by this rule and that is otherwise eligible to wrestle the 11/12 division shall be permitted to do so regardless of grade.

Wrestlers desiring to compete in the 11/12 division must still establish their base weight. This can be done a couple of ways. First, through a qualifying tournament held during the season. Second, the wrestler can contact their Region Chair to arrange a date and time to establish base weight in accordance with WVYWA Rules found on http://www.wvmat.com. Last, arrangements are being made for certain member tournaments the week of February 18 and 19 to record base weights for wrestlers. The Brooke Cubs 4th Annual Hannah Mozingo Memorial Tournament and Tony Williams Memorial Tournament in Grafton will both be available to establish base weights. The WVYWA is trying to obtain permission for other tournaments in the State that weekend to record base weights as well. Please check the WVYWA Facebook site to see if more tournaments become available to establish base weights. Finally, the Regional Entry forms will be updated on http://www.wvmat.com to reflect this change.

Thank you for the feedback and the continued support.

West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association Board of Directors

Region I. Todd Shelak – Wheeling Wrestling;
Region II. Chuck Satterfield – East Fairmont Youth Wrestling;
Region III. Anthony Realbuto – Iron Eagles;
Region IV. Tim Casto – Braxton County Youth Wrestling;
Region V. Vint Eden – The Hill Youth Wrestling;
Region IV. Jason Andrick – Knights (Point Pleasant) Youth Wrestling Club.

I don't feel it's right to suspend the rule this year and then put it in play for next year and treat the 11 year olds this year & 12 year olds next year screwed over. That's not right at all. So I hope all the complaining that has happened this year of parents of the 12 year old 7th graders that have wrestled middle school or had choice of wrestling middle keep the complaining going next year.

I have said and will say it again wrestle by age and forget what grade someone is in. I saw 6th grade varsity have to wrestle 8th graders all year. They were varsity because the team only had a few wrestlers. Same with 7th graders. So the ones who aren't up to that level should be allowed to wrestle their age. Just because they were on the mat with 8th graders for 30 seconds before being pummeled should mean the have to wrestle middle school. Middle school doesn't always make you better. Most youth leagues and clubs give better coaching than some schools.
Wrestle by age. 12 is 12.

[WP1992]

So if the MS states would have been on the original date that was set up would 12 yr olds be able to do both states? I would assume they would, right? That is What they do in Ohio. 7th graders that on 12 on January 1st of that year may qualify and wrestle in the grade school state and the middle school state. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. If you gonna have it all on the same weekend kids should get to chose. You you don't want them to choose then the state tourney would have to be grade based. Mixing age and grade in the same tourney is what causes a lot of this confusion. I agree with JW, 12u would be a ghost town. If you MAKE 12u 7th graders wrestle middle school you are essentially saying that because if your grade you have to wrestle the next age level up 13-15. When we used to go to JRStates kids did t get &*^&( from adults because they didn't wrestle "up" a division because they were perceived as a "good" wrestler.

[Shuysmom]

This is my first post to this forum. I have been following for many years, but have not felt the need to comment before. In this thread, someone indicated the choice a 12 year old 7th grader made was a reflection of the child or parent's integrity. This is an offensive and judgemental statement. I have a 12 year old 7th grader. He has an August birthday. He has never run from competition. Started middle school football and wrestling as an 11 year old 6th grader. When he wrestled youth he often double bracketed. He spent plenty of matches staring at the lights and he has had his share of wins as well. He is not afraid of competition, but if he wrestles regionals, he will do so as a 11-12 year old. Not because he wants a trophy or easy win, but because he wants to see how he compares to kids in the age group he has been wrestling since he was a 4 year old in Parkersburg States. He wrestled middle school this year and he knows how he compares to middle schoolers in our area/conference. That is not what this tournament is about for him. This is WV Youth States. As a 12 year old, he still qualifies as a youth for one more year. He's decision has nothing to do with integrity.

[abettnman]

Enough crying!! This is black and white. This isn't an issue anywhere in the country. If u are a seventh or eighth grader u MUST wrestle middle school division. It's like that everywhere in the country.

COMPLETELY AGREE !!!!

[abettnman]

This is my first post to this forum. I have been following for many years, but have not felt the need to comment before. In this thread, someone indicated the choice a 12 year old 7th grader made was a reflection of the child or parent's integrity. This is an offensive and judgemental statement. I have a 12 year old 7th grader. He has an August birthday. He has never run from competition. Started middle school football and wrestling as an 11 year old 6th grader. When he wrestled youth he often double bracketed. He spent plenty of matches staring at the lights and he has had his share of wins as well. He is not afraid of competition, but if he wrestles regionals, he will do so as a 11-12 year old. Not because he wants a trophy or easy win, but because he wants to see how he compares to kids in the age group he has been wrestling since he was a 4 year old in Parkersburg States. He wrestled middle school this year and he knows how he compares to middle schoolers in our area/conference. That is not what this tournament is about for him. This is WV Youth States. As a 12 year old, he still qualifies as a youth for one more year. He's decision has nothing to do with integrity.

Okay, but is it fair for the 11 year olds this year to change the rules that were set this year but bc of complaining of 12 year old parents the rule has been suspended for this year.

[Matmanwv]

This is my first post to this forum. I have been following for many years, but have not felt the need to comment before. In this thread, someone indicated the choice a 12 year old 7th grader made was a reflection of the child or parent's integrity. This is an offensive and judgemental statement. I have a 12 year old 7th grader. He has an August birthday. He has never run from competition. Started middle school football and wrestling as an 11 year old 6th grader. When he wrestled youth he often double bracketed. He spent plenty of matches staring at the lights and he has had his share of wins as well. He is not afraid of competition, but if he wrestles regionals, he will do so as a 11-12 year old. Not because he wants a trophy or easy win, but because he wants to see how he compares to kids in the age group he has been wrestling since he was a 4 year old in Parkersburg States. He wrestled middle school this year and he knows how he compares to middle schoolers in our area/conference. That is not what this tournament is about for him. This is WV Youth States. As a 12 year old, he still qualifies as a youth for one more year. He's decision has nothing to do with integrity.

Okay, but is it fair for the 11 year olds this year to change the rules that were set this year but bc of complaining of 12 year old parents the rule has been suspended for this year.

Since I started this discussion I will say I do not have a wrestler that this change effects this year but it will in the future. The rule was not in place last year and hasn't effected anyone this year since it was "suspended" hopefully it will be changed back to give the wrestlers a choice. Everyone is so caught up in the grade the kids are in when the only reason the rule was put in place was to have a bigger turnout when the middle school tournament was going to be separated. It is 1 tournament now and should stay that way. Wrestling all over the country is AGE based. 12 is 12. I don't think integrity has anything to do with it. Each wrestler knows his/her ability and what level they are on based on their ability. You will always have kids who are better than others in all age groups. No matter which age group the kids wrestle in it should be their choice. You may have a few who are on the middle school level that still enter the 11-12 and if that's the case then so be it. It's no different than say a 10 year old who goes to camps and can beat everyone in the 9-10 age group with ease so should we ask them to automatically move up to 11-12. NO. Because they are only 10. EVERYONE NEEDS TO QUIT WORRYING ABOUT WHAT GRADE A KID IS IN AND PAY ATTENTION TO HOW OLD THEY ARE!

[abettnman]

This rule will be suspended for this season and readdressed at our first meeting after the conclusion of the 2017 State Tournament. I encourage anyone who wants to have input or has questions to attend our meeting at the State Tournament immediately following weigh ins on Friday night. As of right now if you are 12 years old you may wrestle 12U regardless of what grade you are in.

The West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association (“WVYWA”) appreciates the feedback on the rule as it relates to Seventh and Eighth Graders. The rule change was vigorously debated by the Region Chairs prior to adoption at multiple meetings. The change to the rule is meant to foster the WVYWA’s two overarching goals. First, to improve the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Second, to prepare our youth wrestlers for high school wrestling. After the first year of the WVYWA, considerable feedback was received related to wrestlers who competed in middle school with nightly practices throughout the season that then dropped down to wrestle the 11/12 division at the WVYWA State Championships. A considerable number of parents and coaches felt and feel that this was a significant advantage to the wrestlers who had middle school coaching and practicing. There was also concern over the ability of 12 year old seventh graders participating on a middle school team to attend a qualifying tournament to establish a base weight for the 11/12 division. Given that wrestlers competing in 9th grade will have to compete against sophomores, juniors and seniors in high school, the rule change was an effort to alleviate the concerns of these coaches and parents, balance competition, and provide a transition from age based divisions in youth wrestling to a singular grade based division (high school). With that said, the WVYWA recognizes the various desires and abilities of the various youth wrestlers and families in the State of West Virginia and will strive to provide responsive decisions and action when necessary to facilitate the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Although the BOD stands behind the rule changed debated and passed and recommends all 7th and 8th graders wrestle in the middle school division, the BOD desires to alleviate any concern West Virginia parents and wrestlers may have related to this rule change. As such, any wrestler that has been effected by this rule and that is otherwise eligible to wrestle the 11/12 division shall be permitted to do so regardless of grade.

Wrestlers desiring to compete in the 11/12 division must still establish their base weight. This can be done a couple of ways. First, through a qualifying tournament held during the season. Second, the wrestler can contact their Region Chair to arrange a date and time to establish base weight in accordance with WVYWA Rules found on http://www.wvmat.com. Last, arrangements are being made for certain member tournaments the week of February 18 and 19 to record base weights for wrestlers. The Brooke Cubs 4th Annual Hannah Mozingo Memorial Tournament and Tony Williams Memorial Tournament in Grafton will both be available to establish base weights. The WVYWA is trying to obtain permission for other tournaments in the State that weekend to record base weights as well. Please check the WVYWA Facebook site to see if more tournaments become available to establish base weights. Finally, the Regional Entry forms will be updated on http://www.wvmat.com to reflect this change.

Thank you for the feedback and the continued support.

West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association Board of Directors

Region I. Todd Shelak – Wheeling Wrestling;
Region II. Chuck Satterfield – East Fairmont Youth Wrestling;
Region III. Anthony Realbuto – Iron Eagles;
Region IV. Tim Casto – Braxton County Youth Wrestling;
Region V. Vint Eden – The Hill Youth Wrestling;
Region IV. Jason Andrick – Knights (Point Pleasant) Youth Wrestling Club.

I don't feel it's right to suspend the rule this year and then put it in play for next year and treat the 11 year olds this year & 12 year olds next year screwed over. That's not right at all. So I hope all the complaining that has happened this year of parents of the 12 year old 7th graders that have wrestled middle school or had choice of wrestling middle keep the complaining going next year.

FYI: My son is one of those 12 year old 7th graders and he is a young one at that birthday is 8/31/2004. He will wrestle the middle school division this year. Our goal is not to win a state championship as an elementary or middle schooler. It's to win a state title in high school. Just saying.

Thank you for the FYI Mike.. I was looking for your son at WSAZ's I didn't see him wrestle at the middle school division. What weight was he at ?

[mike.carman]

I don't feel it's right to suspend the rule this year and then put it in play for next year and treat the 11 year olds this year & 12 year olds next year screwed over. That's not right at all. So I hope all the complaining that has happened this year of parents of the 12 year old 7th graders that have wrestled middle school or had choice of wrestling middle keep the complaining going next year.

FYI: My son is one of those 12 year old 7th graders and he is a young one at that birthday is 8/31/2004. He will wrestle the middle school division this year. Our goal is not to win a state championship as an elementary or middle schooler. It's to win a state title in high school. Just saying.

Thank you for the FYI Mike.. I was looking for your son at WSAZ's I didn't see him wrestle at the middle school division. What weight was he at ?

Gabe is 84lbs. Our schools in the north do not wrestle at WSAZ's. Too far for the middle schools to send them. It's also the same weekend as the Jr OVC tournament which is a tournament for all of the OVAC feeder schools. Another reason we don't attend. It is a tournament I would like to attend though.

[mrsadventure]

Sounds like a few people just want a cheap title without having to work for it

I think most people with integrity will enter where they(kids and parents) feel is best for them. I don't think the ones who can hang and have a ligit chance with the 13-15 year olds are going to enter the 11-12 group although the should be able to based on age. The "studs" aren't going to want a "cheap" title as you called it but the kids who aren't quite to that next level and still need to work hard at the age they are with want to be in the age group they are in. If you and your kid are in the situation then by all means wrestle up.

Wrestlewv, lol we have had parents contacting us to see what our son will wrestle...middle school or 11/12 and now we realize why..... ttheir middle school varsity kid is now moving down to wrestle 11/12 to duck our kid...happens all the time...my son was a 6th grader last year in 78lb class and EVERY kid he wrestled in middle school went down to 11/12 except him and 3 others...so there were only 4 of them in that weight class for middle school...its ridiculous....parents have been doing this for years...in youth when states were in PBurg, you have kids wrestling a certain weight class and then being allowed to cut 10-12 pounds and go down to dominate or duck kids they couldnt beat in their actual weight. Makes me sick parents do this to kids....we have NEVER allowed our kid to duck anyone and he has finished 2nd in the state 4 times...he has always had someone just a little better and it hopefully pushes him to work harder...idk the answer, except to either make it MIDDLE SCHOOL or go back to age brackets

[mrsadventure]

I don't think any 12 yr old wants to wrestle anyone other than the best at their age. Why wouldn't they?

Campion, lol we have had parents contacting us to see what our son will wrestle...middle school or 11/12 and now we realize why..... ttheir middle school varsity kid is now moving down to wrestle 11/12 to duck our kid...happens all the time...my son was a 6th grader last year in 78lb class and EVERY kid he wrestled in middle school went down to 11/12 except him and 3 others...so there were only 4 of them in that weight class for middle school...its ridiculous....parents have been doing this for years...in youth when states were in PBurg, you have kids wrestling a certain weight class and then being allowed to cut 10-12 pounds and go down to dominate or duck kids they couldnt beat in their actual weight. Makes me sick parents do this to kids....we have NEVER allowed our kid to duck anyone and he has finished 2nd in the state 4 times...he has always had someone just a little better and it hopefully pushes him to work harder...idk the answer, except to either make it MIDDLE SCHOOL or go back to age brackets

[mrsadventure]

What advantage did they have?

Here is some facts... Some 7th grade wrestlers who are 12 are younger than 12 year olds in 6th grade... Most Middle Schools can barely field a team. Most middle schools can't even fill out a roster, let alone have kids to even practice. Also, most middle school coaches volunteer so that the school can even have a team because nobody else would do it. Youth programs and wrestling clubs get much better training and practice time and that is where my son learned to wrestle. More first hand experience and observation.

The advantage was that they saw more difficult competition wrestling varsity as a 12 year old, wrestled stronger/older kids throughout the season, and depending where you go to school, better coaching. However, I realize not every middle school has great coaching. Anyway, you can't tell me that that varsity 12 year old, whether they lost or won during middle school competition, wasn't better prepared via being "forged in the fire". Not unlike taking your wrestlers to compete in PA and OH to hone their skills against better competition instead of living your wrestling life within a 30 mile radius. However, I do understand the lighter/younger wrestler having to get beat all year on varsity, then not being allowed to finally wrestle kids his age at the end of the season. I guess we have some integrity issues with those 12 year olds who are more advanced and choose to take the easy route to trophies and championships instead of continuing to push themselves. Double edged sword...

I don't necessarily think integrity or the lack there of is the driving force here. I think it's fear. Fear of taking a loss or fear of failure or fear that the child will not continue on if they take a bad loss. If they are not prepared to take a bad loss and move on, I submit to you that we as the adults are not doing our jobs in preparing them for this. After all failure is the best teacher. Failure should motivate you to work harder so you don't fail again.

Just my opinion.

mike.carman i totally agree...we have had parents contacting us to see what our son will wrestle...middle school or 11/12 and now we realize why..... their middle school varsity kid is now moving down to wrestle 11/12 to duck our kid and others better...happens all the time...my son was a 6th grader last year and EVERY kid he wrestled in middle school went down to 11/12 except him and 3 others for the WHOLE STATE...so there were only 4 of them in that weight class for middle school...its ridiculous....parents have been doing this for years...in youth when states were in PBurg, you have kids wrestling a certain weight class and then being allowed to cut 10-12 pounds and go down to dominate or duck kids they couldnt beat in their actual weight, now that is what these parents are doing with this issue. Makes me sick parents do this to kids....we have NEVER allowed our kid to duck anyone and he has finished 2nd in the state 4 times...he has always had someone just a little better and it hopefully pushes him to work harder...idk the answer, except to either make it MIDDLE SCHOOL or go back to age brackets

[James]

If they have not made a base weight they should not be allowed to move down. There were tourneys that changed to base weight qualifiers after this transpired. Don't know the truth of it, but I was told there is 12yr old wrestlers that are moving down that have not made base weight.

[figure4match]

This rule will be suspended for this season and readdressed at our first meeting after the conclusion of the 2017 State Tournament. I encourage anyone who wants to have input or has questions to attend our meeting at the State Tournament immediately following weigh ins on Friday night. As of right now if you are 12 years old you may wrestle 12U regardless of what grade you are in.

The West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association (“WVYWA”) appreciates the feedback on the rule as it relates to Seventh and Eighth Graders. The rule change was vigorously debated by the Region Chairs prior to adoption at multiple meetings. The change to the rule is meant to foster the WVYWA’s two overarching goals. First, to improve the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Second, to prepare our youth wrestlers for high school wrestling. After the first year of the WVYWA, considerable feedback was received related to wrestlers who competed in middle school with nightly practices throughout the season that then dropped down to wrestle the 11/12 division at the WVYWA State Championships. A considerable number of parents and coaches felt and feel that this was a significant advantage to the wrestlers who had middle school coaching and practicing. There was also concern over the ability of 12 year old seventh graders participating on a middle school team to attend a qualifying tournament to establish a base weight for the 11/12 division. Given that wrestlers competing in 9th grade will have to compete against sophomores, juniors and seniors in high school, the rule change was an effort to alleviate the concerns of these coaches and parents, balance competition, and provide a transition from age based divisions in youth wrestling to a singular grade based division (high school). With that said, the WVYWA recognizes the various desires and abilities of the various youth wrestlers and families in the State of West Virginia and will strive to provide responsive decisions and action when necessary to facilitate the sport of wrestling in West Virginia. Although the BOD stands behind the rule changed debated and passed and recommends all 7th and 8th graders wrestle in the middle school division, the BOD desires to alleviate any concern West Virginia parents and wrestlers may have related to this rule change. As such, any wrestler that has been effected by this rule and that is otherwise eligible to wrestle the 11/12 division shall be permitted to do so regardless of grade.

Wrestlers desiring to compete in the 11/12 division must still establish their base weight. This can be done a couple of ways. First, through a qualifying tournament held during the season. Second, the wrestler can contact their Region Chair to arrange a date and time to establish base weight in accordance with WVYWA Rules found on http://www.wvmat.com. Last, arrangements are being made for certain member tournaments the week of February 18 and 19 to record base weights for wrestlers. The Brooke Cubs 4th Annual Hannah Mozingo Memorial Tournament and Tony Williams Memorial Tournament in Grafton will both be available to establish base weights. The WVYWA is trying to obtain permission for other tournaments in the State that weekend to record base weights as well. Please check the WVYWA Facebook site to see if more tournaments become available to establish base weights. Finally, the Regional Entry forms will be updated on http://www.wvmat.com to reflect this change.

Thank you for the feedback and the continued support.

West Virginia Youth Wrestling Association Board of Directors

Region I. Todd Shelak – Wheeling Wrestling;
Region II. Chuck Satterfield – East Fairmont Youth Wrestling;
Region III. Anthony Realbuto – Iron Eagles;
Region IV. Tim Casto – Braxton County Youth Wrestling;
Region V. Vint Eden – The Hill Youth Wrestling;
Region IV. Jason Andrick – Knights (Point Pleasant) Youth Wrestling Club.

I believe a wrestler can go to a regional chair and get their base weight. My understanding you don't have to go a qualifying tournament. Good luck to all!!!

[matcoach90]

The advantage was that they saw more difficult competition wrestling varsity as a 12 year old, wrestled stronger/older kids throughout the season, and depending where you go to school, better coaching. However, I realize not every middle school has great coaching. Anyway, you can't tell me that that varsity 12 year old, whether they lost or won during middle school competition, wasn't better prepared via being "forged in the fire". Not unlike taking your wrestlers to compete in PA and OH to hone their skills against better competition instead of living your wrestling life within a 30 mile radius. However, I do understand the lighter/younger wrestler having to get beat all year on varsity, then not being allowed to finally wrestle kids his age at the end of the season. I guess we have some integrity issues with those 12 year olds who are more advanced and choose to take the easy route to trophies and championships instead of continuing to push themselves. Double edged sword...

I don't necessarily think integrity or the lack there of is the driving force here. I think it's fear. Fear of taking a loss or fear of failure or fear that the child will not continue on if they take a bad loss. If they are not prepared to take a bad loss and move on, I submit to you that we as the adults are not doing our jobs in preparing them for this. After all failure is the best teacher. Failure should motivate you to work harder so you don't fail again.

Just my opinion.

mike.carman i totally agree...we have had parents contacting us to see what our son will wrestle...middle school or 11/12 and now we realize why..... their middle school varsity kid is now moving down to wrestle 11/12 to duck our kid and others better...happens all the time...my son was a 6th grader last year and EVERY kid he wrestled in middle school went down to 11/12 except him and 3 others for the WHOLE STATE...so there were only 4 of them in that weight class for middle school...its ridiculous....parents have been doing this for years...in youth when states were in PBurg, you have kids wrestling a certain weight class and then being allowed to cut 10-12 pounds and go down to dominate or duck kids they couldnt beat in their actual weight, now that is what these parents are doing with this issue. Makes me sick parents do this to kids....we have NEVER allowed our kid to duck anyone and he has finished 2nd in the state 4 times...he has always had someone just a little better and it hopefully pushes him to work harder...idk the answer, except to either make it MIDDLE SCHOOL or go back to age brackets

This is the point I have been trying to make. It's happening a lot. I saw it at Parkersburg States, and we'll see it in Huntington.

[Wrestlewv]

Sounds like a few people just want a cheap title without having to work for it

I think most people with integrity will enter where they(kids and parents) feel is best for them. I don't think the ones who can hang and have a ligit chance with the 13-15 year olds are going to enter the 11-12 group although the should be able to based on age. The "studs" aren't going to want a "cheap" title as you called it but the kids who aren't quite to that next level and still need to work hard at the age they are with want to be in the age group they are in. If you and your kid are in the situation then by all means wrestle up.

Wrestlewv, lol we have had parents contacting us to see what our son will wrestle...middle school or 11/12 and now we realize why..... ttheir middle school varsity kid is now moving down to wrestle 11/12 to duck our kid...happens all the time...my son was a 6th grader last year in 78lb class and EVERY kid he wrestled in middle school went down to 11/12 except him and 3 others...so there were only 4 of them in that weight class for middle school...its ridiculous....parents have been doing this for years...in youth when states were in PBurg, you have kids wrestling a certain weight class and then being allowed to cut 10-12 pounds and go down to dominate or duck kids they couldnt beat in their actual weight. Makes me sick parents do this to kids....we have NEVER allowed our kid to duck anyone and he has finished 2nd in the state 4 times...he has always had someone just a little better and it hopefully pushes him to work harder...idk the answer, except to either make it MIDDLE SCHOOL or go back to age brackets

I know there are people who will dodge others by cutting weight. My kids wrestle where they are and I don't push cutting weight on my kids. I push my kids to be the best they can. My feelings in this are pretty simple. Let the wrestlers wrestle their age group and allow them to wrestle up if they want but only wrestle in one age group. Don't force anyone to wrestle up. Some will have any easy road some won't. As this tournament grows will will have fuller brackets in all age and weights. Just don't try to fill middle school brackets by forcing a 12 year old to wrestle up to middle school. Give them the choice.

[figure4match]

I'll say it again.
Have an age base State Tournament and also do a Middle School Tournament that is open to all WV Middle Schools age kids with a MS team or not with a team (club). Most of the 7th graders last year that were 12 years old wrestled within their age (11-12).

[mike.carman]

Not all kids have the opportunity to wrestle for their middle school teams. Not all kids choose to wrestle for their middle school teams. Some middle school programs are obviously better than others.

Club teams typically practice 2-3 times a week. Middle school teams practice 4-5 times a week. Some wrestlers leave their middle school programs and go to a club practice. Some parents can afford to get their kids extra practice.

One question that has come up is this:
Your 7th grader wrestles for his middle school program and he is 12 years old, comes from a good program and attends other practices. Should this child be permitted to wrestle an 11 year old 5th grader who attends practice 2-3 times a week?

I have personally witnessed this and have seen this child wrestle 12U because he was 12 and mom or dad just want him to win a state championship and have an easy road.

On the opposite side of this argument:
A 12 year old who is in 7th grade will be a 14 year old freshman who could be required to wrestle a 19 year old senior. IMO: Allowing this child to wrestle 12U is setting him/her up for failure in the future.

However, allowing them to have choice does have merit as we are not here to parent anyone else's child. I am in favor of choice but, I have seen people chase trophies way too much. To be able to be competitive no matter who you wrestle against is the reward. Learning the lesson of giving all you have regardless of the outcome is the reward. I suggest we all take a moment of self reflection and really ask ourselves what we are teaching our kids. Are we teaching them to be competitive or are we teaching them to dodge competition.

Just my opinion.