'A' Team Polls

[DumptruckDave]

Good thing these are coaches polls and can't be taken seriously because "WOW". Single A Challenge gives you all you need for Single A. When teams are ranked high out of nowhere, drop out of tournaments, and don't finish ahead of the defending Single A Champions that have been on top all year, how do you rank them @ #1 after they do well at ONE tournament? If you're in the Single A community then you know who the top teams are, Single A Challenge was a great reflection of that, with 1st place teams in a tie and 3rd place separated by only 3 points, then I think 4th was something like 25 points behind 3rd.....I will also add, Ravenswood finished 3rd, by 3 points, and had 4 starters out that weekend and had 5 in the finals, walking away with 3 Champions and 2 runner ups.

Will be excited to watch them in the LKC tournament where they will see Williamstown again, unfortunately GW is not in the LKC.

Oh, as in another topic, WC dropped out of another tournament.....

At the end of the day, coaches rankings are laughable but, give credit where credit is due, the KIDS deserve that.

[aacoach75]

Just focus on hanging your hat on the big board in Huntington. Polls are just polls/opinions.

[DumptruckDave]

Just focus on hanging your hat on the big board in Huntington. Polls are just polls/opinions.

Agree. Just a few weeks away!

[KDunbar]

Good thing these are coaches polls and can't be taken seriously because "WOW". Single A Challenge gives you all you need for Single A. When teams are ranked high out of nowhere, drop out of tournaments, and don't finish ahead of the defending Single A Champions that have been on top all year, how do you rank them @ #1 after they do well at ONE tournament? If you're in the Single A community then you know who the top teams are, Single A Challenge was a great reflection of that, with 1st place teams in a tie and 3rd place separated by only 3 points, then I think 4th was something like 25 points behind 3rd.....I will also add, Ravenswood finished 3rd, by 3 points, and had 4 starters out that weekend and had 5 in the finals, walking away with 3 Champions and 2 runner ups.

Will be excited to watch them in the LKC tournament where they will see Williamstown again, unfortunately GW is not in the LKC.

Oh, as in another topic, WC dropped out of another tournament.....

At the end of the day, coaches rankings are laughable but, give credit where credit is due, the KIDS deserve that.

I too noticed this change in the rankings. I admittedly don't follow AA/A closely enough to have a good knowledge of most of the wrestlers there. Not because of any reason other than that I don't get enough exposure to many of them at the tournaments and matches I attend. I understand that the Individual rankings are also just a close guess of what some people think who follow this closer than me, or at least what the season has indicated thus far. However, I thought maybe using them as a rough guideline might help one see what might happen. Now if you use the rankings (which have both AA and A combined) and project the scoring for the single A wrestlers as if they were in a tournament alone, using just those in the top 10, one would get the following using just placement points out to 6th place:
1) Greenbrier West 85 points
2) Wheeling Central 61 points
3) Cameron 48 points
4) Ravenswood 37 points
5) Williamstown 25 points
I realize this leaves out a number of single A wrestlers who would score points in the absence of AA. I just don't know where to place them. The Single A challenge is an attempt to do just this without the interference of AA. However, the reality of the State tournament is that the AA wrestlers in the rankings will be there. So the scoring in the State tournament would be as follows using just placement points:
1)Greenbrier West 47 points
2) Wheeling Central 41 points
3) Cameron 35 points
4) Ravenswood 16 points
5) Williamstown 9 points
( I didn't actually score any single A teams other than the 5 above)
With Cameron, this kind of shows that a team with a few highly ranked wrestlers that compete well even with the AA wrestlers in their weight class, will do better in this kind of tournament than they might be doing in other tournaments, or more likely in the dual setting.

Again this is using "rankings", but until they actually wrestle..... well you know.
By the way, I'm not trying to prove any point or take any stand. I just wasted my time doing this, so I thought I would put it on here.

[brentsams]

My anticipated SINGLE A finished base on individual rankings
(I gave points to all ranked wrestlers as the top 12 will score points at the state tournament)
RANK SCHOOL REGION POINTS POLL
1 Greenbrier West (R3) 79 2
2 Wheeling Central (R1) 66 1
3 Wirt County (R4) 47 8
4 Cameron (R1) 44 9
5 East Hardy (R2) 43 5
6 Ravenswood (R4) 42 4
7 Petersburg (R2) 29 na
8 Calhoun County (R4) 27 na
9 Tyler Consolidated (R1) 24 6
10 Williamstown (R4) 23 2
11 Doddridge County (R2) 15 10
12 St Marys (R1) 12 na
13 Buffalo (R4) 10 7
14 Ritchie County (R2) 9 na
15 South Harrison (R2) 7 na

Anticipated DOUBLE A finish
RANK SCHOOL TEAM POINTS
1 Point Pleasant (R4) 156 2
2 Fairmont Senior (R1) 142 1
3 Oak Glen (R1) 99 3
4 Berkeley Springs (R1) 89 9
5 Keyser (R1) 88 4
6 Herbert Hoover (R3) 69 5
7 Braxton County (R2) 61 6
8 East Fairmont (R1) 57 6
9 Shady Spring (R3) 38 na
10 Lewis County (R2) 36 na
10 Roane County (R2) 36 8
12 Frankfort (R1) 35 na
12 North Marion (R1) 35 9
14 Independence (R3) 29
15 Sissonville (R4) 25
16 Weir (R1) 24
17 Clay County (R2) 22
18 Nicholas County (R3) 19
18 Nitro (R4) 19
20 Liberty Raleigh (R3) 18
21 Lincoln (R2) 11
22 Winfield (R4) 10
23 Chapmanville (R4) 8
24 Robert C Byrd (R2) 7

And 3A finish base on polls
RANK SCHOOL POINTS POLL
1 University (R1) 142 1
2 Parkersburg South (R4) 129 2
3 Parkersburg (R4) 117 5
4 Woodrow Wilson (R3) 116 4
5 Ripley (R4) 100 6
6 Spring Mills (R2) 91 3
7 Cabell Midland (R4) 90 7
8 Huntington (R4) 85 9
9 Wheeling Park (R1) 75 na
10 Martinsburg (R2) 63 na
10 St Albans (R3) 63 8
12 Washington (R2) 60 10
13 Hurricane (R4) 56
14 John Marshall (R1) 55
15 Musselman (R2) 53
16 Brooke (R1) 45
17 George Washington (R3) 43
18 Greenbrier East (R3) 41
19 Buckhannon-Upshur (R1) 39
20 Preston (R1) 33
21 Bridgeport (R1) 25
22 Hedgesville (R2) 18
22 Oak Hill (R3) 18
24 Bridgeport (R2) 14
25 Jefferson (R2) 11
26 Capital (R3) 10
26 Spring Valley (R4) 10
28 Hampshire (R2) 8

[Weir_Coach]

None of this takes into account the fact that Region 1 will likely muddy the waters because so many good wrestlers from those schools won't score points at States because they won't be able to get out of Region 1. Those teams will place lower on the board at States because of this, but it doesn't mean that all the teams above them are better teams. They just came from easier regions and will be able to qualify more wrestlers to score points. The Region map just needs un-gerrymandered.

[HiCoach]

Good thing these are coaches polls and can't be taken seriously because "WOW". Single A Challenge gives you all you need for Single A. When teams are ranked high out of nowhere, drop out of tournaments, and don't finish ahead of the defending Single A Champions that have been on top all year, how do you rank them @ #1 after they do well at ONE tournament? If you're in the Single A community then you know who the top teams are, Single A Challenge was a great reflection of that, with 1st place teams in a tie and 3rd place separated by only 3 points, then I think 4th was something like 25 points behind 3rd.....I will also add, Ravenswood finished 3rd, by 3 points, and had 4 starters out that weekend and had 5 in the finals, walking away with 3 Champions and 2 runner ups.

Will be excited to watch them in the LKC tournament where they will see Williamstown again, unfortunately GW is not in the LKC.

Oh, as in another topic, WC dropped out of another tournament.....

At the end of the day, coaches rankings are laughable but, give credit where credit is due, the KIDS deserve that.

I too noticed this change in the rankings. I admittedly don't follow AA/A closely enough to have a good knowledge of most of the wrestlers there. Not because of any reason other than that I don't get enough exposure to many of them at the tournaments and matches I attend. I understand that the Individual rankings are also just a close guess of what some people think who follow this closer than me, or at least what the season has indicated thus far. However, I thought maybe using them as a rough guideline might help one see what might happen. Now if you use the rankings (which have both AA and A combined) and project the scoring for the single A wrestlers as if they were in a tournament alone, using just those in the top 10, one would get the following using just placement points out to 6th place:
1) Greenbrier West 85 points
2) Wheeling Central 61 points
3) Cameron 48 points
4) Ravenswood 37 points
5) Williamstown 25 points
I realize this leaves out a number of single A wrestlers who would score points in the absence of AA. I just don't know where to place them. The Single A challenge is an attempt to do just this without the interference of AA. However, the reality of the State tournament is that the AA wrestlers in the rankings will be there. So the scoring in the State tournament would be as follows using just placement points:
1)Greenbrier West 47 points
2) Wheeling Central 41 points
3) Cameron 35 points
4) Ravenswood 16 points
5) Williamstown 9 points
( I didn't actually score any single A teams other than the 5 above)
With Cameron, this kind of shows that a team with a few highly ranked wrestlers that compete well even with the AA wrestlers in their weight class, will do better in this kind of tournament than they might be doing in other tournaments, or more likely in the dual setting.

Again this is using "rankings", but until they actually wrestle..... well you know.
By the way, I'm not trying to prove any point or take any stand. I just wasted my time doing this, so I thought I would put it on here.

This shows how unbalanced and unfair the state tournament is for Single A teams. I won't rant about what needs to be changed because it won't get anything accomplished. But there are MANY ways to adjust things that not only helps Single A, but WV wrestling as a whole.

[HiCoach]

None of this takes into account the fact that Region 1 will likely muddy the waters because so many good wrestlers from those schools won't score points at States because they won't be able to get out of Region 1. Those teams will place lower on the board at States because of this, but it doesn't mean that all the teams above them are better teams. They just came from easier regions and will be able to qualify more wrestlers to score points. The Region map just needs un-gerrymandered.

Fixing the regional alignment and overall school balance in each classification is the first step in fixing this out-of-date, biased system. Good luck at regionals Coach.

[Weir_Coach]

None of this takes into account the fact that Region 1 will likely muddy the waters because so many good wrestlers from those schools won't score points at States because they won't be able to get out of Region 1. Those teams will place lower on the board at States because of this, but it doesn't mean that all the teams above them are better teams. They just came from easier regions and will be able to qualify more wrestlers to score points. The Region map just needs un-gerrymandered.

Fixing the regional alignment and overall school balance in each classification is the first step in fixing this out-of-date, biased system. Good luck at regionals Coach.

Spot on! Good luck to you as well, Coach.

[KDunbar]

Good thing these are coaches polls and can't be taken seriously because "WOW". Single A Challenge gives you all you need for Single A. When teams are ranked high out of nowhere, drop out of tournaments, and don't finish ahead of the defending Single A Champions that have been on top all year, how do you rank them @ #1 after they do well at ONE tournament? If you're in the Single A community then you know who the top teams are, Single A Challenge was a great reflection of that, with 1st place teams in a tie and 3rd place separated by only 3 points, then I think 4th was something like 25 points behind 3rd.....I will also add, Ravenswood finished 3rd, by 3 points, and had 4 starters out that weekend and had 5 in the finals, walking away with 3 Champions and 2 runner ups.

Will be excited to watch them in the LKC tournament where they will see Williamstown again, unfortunately GW is not in the LKC.

Oh, as in another topic, WC dropped out of another tournament.....

At the end of the day, coaches rankings are laughable but, give credit where credit is due, the KIDS deserve that.

I too noticed this change in the rankings. I admittedly don't follow AA/A closely enough to have a good knowledge of most of the wrestlers there. Not because of any reason other than that I don't get enough exposure to many of them at the tournaments and matches I attend. I understand that the Individual rankings are also just a close guess of what some people think who follow this closer than me, or at least what the season has indicated thus far. However, I thought maybe using them as a rough guideline might help one see what might happen. Now if you use the rankings (which have both AA and A combined) and project the scoring for the single A wrestlers as if they were in a tournament alone, using just those in the top 10, one would get the following using just placement points out to 6th place:
1) Greenbrier West 85 points
2) Wheeling Central 61 points
3) Cameron 48 points
4) Ravenswood 37 points
5) Williamstown 25 points
I realize this leaves out a number of single A wrestlers who would score points in the absence of AA. I just don't know where to place them. The Single A challenge is an attempt to do just this without the interference of AA. However, the reality of the State tournament is that the AA wrestlers in the rankings will be there. So the scoring in the State tournament would be as follows using just placement points:
1)Greenbrier West 47 points
2) Wheeling Central 41 points
3) Cameron 35 points
4) Ravenswood 16 points
5) Williamstown 9 points
( I didn't actually score any single A teams other than the 5 above)
With Cameron, this kind of shows that a team with a few highly ranked wrestlers that compete well even with the AA wrestlers in their weight class, will do better in this kind of tournament than they might be doing in other tournaments, or more likely in the dual setting.

Again this is using "rankings", but until they actually wrestle..... well you know.
By the way, I'm not trying to prove any point or take any stand. I just wasted my time doing this, so I thought I would put it on here.

This shows how unbalanced and unfair the state tournament is for Single A teams. I won't rant about what needs to be changed because it won't get anything accomplished. But there are MANY ways to adjust things that not only helps Single A, but WV wrestling as a whole.

I actually don't see where any of the information I posted shows anything close to that. My post shows that with or without AA involved, the team finish is identical for the Single A teams, exactly the opposite of what you imply it shows. My post was actually only looking at where possibly the Single A teams should be ranked. Now the discussion has changed and is focusing on two seperate things. The first is regarding there being a disparity in the quantity of quality wrestlers from one region to another. The second is the accuracy of determinng the best Single A tournament team when AA & A classifications are in the same tournament. As in past years, the question then becomes whether one agrees or not that with reducing the competition all single A wrestlers face it reduces the meaningfulness of those accomplishments.

[HiCoach]

I too noticed this change in the rankings. I admittedly don't follow AA/A closely enough to have a good knowledge of most of the wrestlers there. Not because of any reason other than that I don't get enough exposure to many of them at the tournaments and matches I attend. I understand that the Individual rankings are also just a close guess of what some people think who follow this closer than me, or at least what the season has indicated thus far. However, I thought maybe using them as a rough guideline might help one see what might happen. Now if you use the rankings (which have both AA and A combined) and project the scoring for the single A wrestlers as if they were in a tournament alone, using just those in the top 10, one would get the following using just placement points out to 6th place:
1) Greenbrier West 85 points
2) Wheeling Central 61 points
3) Cameron 48 points
4) Ravenswood 37 points
5) Williamstown 25 points
I realize this leaves out a number of single A wrestlers who would score points in the absence of AA. I just don't know where to place them. The Single A challenge is an attempt to do just this without the interference of AA. However, the reality of the State tournament is that the AA wrestlers in the rankings will be there. So the scoring in the State tournament would be as follows using just placement points:
1)Greenbrier West 47 points
2) Wheeling Central 41 points
3) Cameron 35 points
4) Ravenswood 16 points
5) Williamstown 9 points
( I didn't actually score any single A teams other than the 5 above)
With Cameron, this kind of shows that a team with a few highly ranked wrestlers that compete well even with the AA wrestlers in their weight class, will do better in this kind of tournament than they might be doing in other tournaments, or more likely in the dual setting.

Again this is using "rankings", but until they actually wrestle..... well you know.
By the way, I'm not trying to prove any point or take any stand. I just wasted my time doing this, so I thought I would put it on here.

This shows how unbalanced and unfair the state tournament is for Single A teams. I won't rant about what needs to be changed because it won't get anything accomplished. But there are MANY ways to adjust things that not only helps Single A, but WV wrestling as a whole.

I actually don't see where any of the information I posted shows anything close to that. My post shows that with or without AA involved, the team finish is identical for the Single A teams, exactly the opposite of what you imply it shows. My post was actually only looking at where possibly the Single A teams should be ranked. Now the discussion has changed and is focusing on two seperate things. The first is regarding there being a disparity in the quantity of quality wrestlers from one region to another. The second is the accuracy of determinng the best Single A tournament team when AA & A classifications are in the same tournament. As in past years, the question then becomes whether one agrees or not that with reducing the competition all single A wrestlers face it reduces the meaningfulness of those accomplishments.

I get where you're coming from completely. Im just stating that its crazy to think the Single A team champs win a state title with 77 points. Where as the AA champs score 208. There were 19 state placers last year from Single A out of 84 opportunities. And only 1 of them was a state champ. I am simply implying that several AA teams should be bumped up to AAA to make the numbers more even. Some AAA region brackets have 5 guys in them, while A/AA may have 12+.

[KDunbar]

This shows how unbalanced and unfair the state tournament is for Single A teams. I won't rant about what needs to be changed because it won't get anything accomplished. But there are MANY ways to adjust things that not only helps Single A, but WV wrestling as a whole.

I actually don't see where any of the information I posted shows anything close to that. My post shows that with or without AA involved, the team finish is identical for the Single A teams, exactly the opposite of what you imply it shows. My post was actually only looking at where possibly the Single A teams should be ranked. Now the discussion has changed and is focusing on two seperate things. The first is regarding there being a disparity in the quantity of quality wrestlers from one region to another. The second is the accuracy of determinng the best Single A tournament team when AA & A classifications are in the same tournament. As in past years, the question then becomes whether one agrees or not that with reducing the competition all single A wrestlers face it reduces the meaningfulness of those accomplishments.

I get where you're coming from completely. Im just stating that its crazy to think the Single A team champs win a state title with 77 points. Where as the AA champs score 208. There were 19 state placers last year from Single A out of 84 opportunities. And only 1 of them was a state champ. I am simply implying that several AA teams should be bumped up to AAA to make the numbers more even. Some AAA region brackets have 5 guys in them, while A/AA may have 12+.

But you have to think about what you are suggesting. There is a big difference between a team placing in the state tournament and an individual wrestler placing. There are about 32 AAA schools now. There are about 38 AA schools. There are only 29 A schools with wrestling teams (many with several open weights in their lineups). The only way to move some AA schools up to AAA is based on student body size. If you took the 6 largest schools from AA and moved them to AAA (now there would be 42 AAA schools), you would be moving the following place finishers in last years AA/A state tournament: #38, #30, #27, #17, #11, #1. So the Single A school's wrestlers competition is not solely based on school size. I do believe it is already as hard, if not harder, for individual wrestlers to place in the AAA State tournament than in AA/A, and adding these schools would make it harder. If a wrestler from a single A school cannot place in the State tournament why would it be doing him a service just to make it easier. In the state tournament there are now only 16 wrestles in each weight class. It's no longer about numbers, but rather it's about ability. It would be like having a tournament after the state tournament for only the wrestlers who didn't place at the state tournament and giving them awards. Then have another tournament for the ones that didn't place at that tournament. I don't think I'm being unsympathetic, but just being practical.

[DumptruckDave]

32 AAA Teams vs 67 AA/A Teams and you think it's harder for AAA kids to place at the State Tournament? Look at region 1 in AA/A and the # of ranked kids in that region.....you will have ranked kids, good, ranked kids, probably not make it out of the region..... you have select AA/A Schools that would dominate select AAA schools....

As far as talking about 'A' winning a team title with 77 points, pay more attention to 'A' schools, half can't fill a full roster and no offense, but only a handful that can has more than 3 or 4 kids that will make the tournament.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago, in AA/A region 4, at 106, they had 1 not make weight, because of that, it was like win 1 match and you were guaranteed 4th and be a state Qualifier (something like that,) So for Single A it is hard to score points because you may have only sent 3 kids....

The original meaning of this Post was to try and figure out how a Team like Greenbrier West, defending state Champions, been ranked #1 all year, gets jumped by Wheeling Central who has yet to be at a tournament and finish ahead of GW, as a matter of fact, hasn't been to a tournament and finished ahead of GW, Williamstown, or Ravenswood (who finished above them at state tournament 2023) Every Tournament where 1 of those 3 plus WC was in attendance, WC has dropped out.... If I'm wrong with the results correct me, hard to keep track when scores are never posted.

It all works itself out in the end, and coaches polls are not a respectable source in my opinion due to lack of voting and popularity contest, I wish WVSSAC actually took the time and did actual, factual, data filled Rankings.

[KDunbar]

32 AAA Teams vs 67 AA/A Teams and you think it's harder for AAA kids to place at the State Tournament? Look at region 1 in AA/A and the # of ranked kids in that region.....you will have ranked kids, good, ranked kids, probably not make it out of the region..... you have select AA/A Schools that would dominate select AAA schools....

As far as talking about 'A' winning a team title with 77 points, pay more attention to 'A' schools, half can't fill a full roster and no offense, but only a handful that can has more than 3 or 4 kids that will make the tournament.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago, in AA/A region 4, at 106, they had 1 not make weight, because of that, it was like win 1 match and you were guaranteed 4th and be a state Qualifier (something like that,) So for Single A it is hard to score points because you may have only sent 3 kids....

The original meaning of this Post was to try and figure out how a Team like Greenbrier West, defending state Champions, been ranked #1 all year, gets jumped by Wheeling Central who has yet to be at a tournament and finish ahead of GW, as a matter of fact, hasn't been to a tournament and finished ahead of GW, Williamstown, or Ravenswood (who finished above them at state tournament 2023) Every Tournament where 1 of those 3 plus WC was in attendance, WC has dropped out.... If I'm wrong with the results correct me, hard to keep track when scores are never posted.

It all works itself out in the end, and coaches polls are not a respectable source in my opinion due to lack of voting and popularity contest, I wish WVSSAC actually took the time and did actual, factual, data filled Rankings.

First of all, I did not say it is harder (although, who knows, it might be). I said it is at least as hard (and if that is incorrect, then yes I do think it is harder, as it most certainly is not easier). It's not about the number of schools, as you pointed out yourself that many of the Single A schools (and I believe a fair number of Double A teams) are far from a full roster. Quantity is not important, quality is, or maybe more importantly, the quantity of quality. And just because some kids ranked in the top 10 in Region 1 AA/A don't make it to the state tournament does not necessarily make it harder to place in the state tournament in AA/A compared to AAA. It's actually just the opposite if you're saying that lesser wrestlers are there in their place, which obviously is what you are saying. Just because some AA teams, and even some A teams, can beat some AAA teams doesn't refute anything I posted, because I never was making an argument that AAA was better than anybody else. I was just saying that making the state tournament less competitive to ensure someone wins a state title is not the solution. I was not commenting on the disparity in ranked wrestlers in different regions. I have lived with that reality with all the teams in the region I have followed for the past 50 some years. I have grown up with and seen kids in the wrestling room not wrestling in the regional who were probably better than some of the kids that eventually placed.

[HiCoach]

32 AAA Teams vs 67 AA/A Teams and you think it's harder for AAA kids to place at the State Tournament? Look at region 1 in AA/A and the # of ranked kids in that region.....you will have ranked kids, good, ranked kids, probably not make it out of the region..... you have select AA/A Schools that would dominate select AAA schools....

As far as talking about 'A' winning a team title with 77 points, pay more attention to 'A' schools, half can't fill a full roster and no offense, but only a handful that can has more than 3 or 4 kids that will make the tournament.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago, in AA/A region 4, at 106, they had 1 not make weight, because of that, it was like win 1 match and you were guaranteed 4th and be a state Qualifier (something like that,) So for Single A it is hard to score points because you may have only sent 3 kids....

The original meaning of this Post was to try and figure out how a Team like Greenbrier West, defending state Champions, been ranked #1 all year, gets jumped by Wheeling Central who has yet to be at a tournament and finish ahead of GW, as a matter of fact, hasn't been to a tournament and finished ahead of GW, Williamstown, or Ravenswood (who finished above them at state tournament 2023) Every Tournament where 1 of those 3 plus WC was in attendance, WC has dropped out.... If I'm wrong with the results correct me, hard to keep track when scores are never posted.

It all works itself out in the end, and coaches polls are not a respectable source in my opinion due to lack of voting and popularity contest, I wish WVSSAC actually took the time and did actual, factual, data filled Rankings.

I agree many single A school cannot fill a full lineup, but there are more single A schools filling full lineups than you think. My team fills every weight and we have had duals with many AAA this season and almost every time they are giving up a few weights. The only reason most Single A teams only send a few wrestlers to the state tournament is because AA competes with us. AAA region 2 sometimes has 4-6 guys in their regional bracket so it is no different than the example you gave. But yes I agree it is hard to give WC the top rank when they don't compete with hardly any single A schools.

[HiCoach]

32 AAA Teams vs 67 AA/A Teams and you think it's harder for AAA kids to place at the State Tournament? Look at region 1 in AA/A and the # of ranked kids in that region.....you will have ranked kids, good, ranked kids, probably not make it out of the region..... you have select AA/A Schools that would dominate select AAA schools....

As far as talking about 'A' winning a team title with 77 points, pay more attention to 'A' schools, half can't fill a full roster and no offense, but only a handful that can has more than 3 or 4 kids that will make the tournament.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago, in AA/A region 4, at 106, they had 1 not make weight, because of that, it was like win 1 match and you were guaranteed 4th and be a state Qualifier (something like that,) So for Single A it is hard to score points because you may have only sent 3 kids....

The original meaning of this Post was to try and figure out how a Team like Greenbrier West, defending state Champions, been ranked #1 all year, gets jumped by Wheeling Central who has yet to be at a tournament and finish ahead of GW, as a matter of fact, hasn't been to a tournament and finished ahead of GW, Williamstown, or Ravenswood (who finished above them at state tournament 2023) Every Tournament where 1 of those 3 plus WC was in attendance, WC has dropped out.... If I'm wrong with the results correct me, hard to keep track when scores are never posted.

It all works itself out in the end, and coaches polls are not a respectable source in my opinion due to lack of voting and popularity contest, I wish WVSSAC actually took the time and did actual, factual, data filled Rankings.

First of all, I did not say it is harder (although, who knows, it might be). I said it is at least as hard (and if that is incorrect, then yes I do think it is harder, as it most certainly is not easier). It's not about the number of schools, as you pointed out yourself that many of the Single A schools (and I believe a fair number of Double A teams) are far from a full roster. Quantity is not important, quality is, or maybe more importantly, the quantity of quality. And just because some kids ranked in the top 10 in Region 1 AA/A don't make it to the state tournament does not necessarily make it harder to place in the state tournament in AA/A compared to AAA. It's actually just the opposite if you're saying that lesser wrestlers are there in their place, which obviously is what you are saying. Just because some AA teams, and even some A teams, can beat some AAA teams doesn't refute anything I posted, because I never was making an argument that AAA was better than anybody else. I was just saying that making the state tournament less competitive to ensure someone wins a state title is not the solution. I was not commenting on the disparity in ranked wrestlers in different regions. I have lived with that reality with all the teams in the region I have followed for the past 50 some years. I have grown up with and seen kids in the wrestling room not wrestling in the regional who were probably better than some of the kids that eventually placed.

I believe some weights at A/AA are tougher to place than AAA. Again just my opinion. But shouldn't AAA have the toughest competition and most struggle to place? I stand by my opinion that a handful of AA should move up to even out the numbers. Yes it will make A/AA just slightly less competitive than it is now, but the top tier guys in AA are already making matches less competitive because of their dominance. Is it more fair for a team like Fairmont Senior to be competing against teams like St. Mary's, Wahama, Williamstown and West (all of whom fill full lineups), or for them to compete against teams like South, University, Ripley, etc. Im just saying it is a little lopsided right now and if anyone disagrees that is their opinion. But I also think those people who believe that just don't watch enough A/AA. Ultimately this can hurt small schools trying to start/build a program. Kids may not come out or try the sport if they think they have zero shot to do something at the end of the year. The last thing we need to be doing is lowering participation numbers. It should be encouraging to other schools to be competitive on an even field. Anyways, completely off topic from the original post but there is my rant. People can debate this stuff till their blue in the face but it will not change most of our opinions. Gotta love the freedom of speech!

[mscoach90]

Have the new A-AA-AAA-AAAA straight across the board for all athletics.

[KDunbar]

32 AAA Teams vs 67 AA/A Teams and you think it's harder for AAA kids to place at the State Tournament? Look at region 1 in AA/A and the # of ranked kids in that region.....you will have ranked kids, good, ranked kids, probably not make it out of the region..... you have select AA/A Schools that would dominate select AAA schools....

As far as talking about 'A' winning a team title with 77 points, pay more attention to 'A' schools, half can't fill a full roster and no offense, but only a handful that can has more than 3 or 4 kids that will make the tournament.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago, in AA/A region 4, at 106, they had 1 not make weight, because of that, it was like win 1 match and you were guaranteed 4th and be a state Qualifier (something like that,) So for Single A it is hard to score points because you may have only sent 3 kids....

The original meaning of this Post was to try and figure out how a Team like Greenbrier West, defending state Champions, been ranked #1 all year, gets jumped by Wheeling Central who has yet to be at a tournament and finish ahead of GW, as a matter of fact, hasn't been to a tournament and finished ahead of GW, Williamstown, or Ravenswood (who finished above them at state tournament 2023) Every Tournament where 1 of those 3 plus WC was in attendance, WC has dropped out.... If I'm wrong with the results correct me, hard to keep track when scores are never posted.

It all works itself out in the end, and coaches polls are not a respectable source in my opinion due to lack of voting and popularity contest, I wish WVSSAC actually took the time and did actual, factual, data filled Rankings.

I agree many single A school cannot fill a full lineup, but there are more single A schools filling full lineups than you think. My team fills every weight and we have had duals with many AAA this season and almost every time they are giving up a few weights. The only reason most Single A teams only send a few wrestlers to the state tournament is because AA competes with us. AAA region 2 sometimes has 4-6 guys in their regional bracket so it is no different than the example you gave. But yes I agree it is hard to give WC the top rank when they don't compete with hardly any single A schools.

I actually read the rosters of all of the single A schools that are available, so I do know about those and there are not likely more than I think. However, I don't think there are as few as you probably think I think. I was not making a slam at single A schools at all and I am aware there are teams like yours than may be more than competitive with most of the AAA teams out there. I also know there are AAA teams with several holes in their lineups. I wasn't actually making that comparison. And you are correct, the only reason Single A schools send less wrestlees is that because the better wrestlers, which happen to be in AA, beat them. I understand, I think, what you are meaning regarding things that happen in certain weight classes in certain AAA regions, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Regarding the original theme of this thread, although I don't agree with calling the coach's poll laughable, I was trying to address whether one team should be possibly ranked #! and it would seem to me that #2 is more appropriate based on the performance of their wrestler, regardless of their tournament choices. Who knows, they may be making those choices just to get stronger competition. I'm not saying that's the case as I don't know what choices they made.

[KDunbar]

32 AAA Teams vs 67 AA/A Teams and you think it's harder for AAA kids to place at the State Tournament? Look at region 1 in AA/A and the # of ranked kids in that region.....you will have ranked kids, good, ranked kids, probably not make it out of the region..... you have select AA/A Schools that would dominate select AAA schools....

As far as talking about 'A' winning a team title with 77 points, pay more attention to 'A' schools, half can't fill a full roster and no offense, but only a handful that can has more than 3 or 4 kids that will make the tournament.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago, in AA/A region 4, at 106, they had 1 not make weight, because of that, it was like win 1 match and you were guaranteed 4th and be a state Qualifier (something like that,) So for Single A it is hard to score points because you may have only sent 3 kids....

The original meaning of this Post was to try and figure out how a Team like Greenbrier West, defending state Champions, been ranked #1 all year, gets jumped by Wheeling Central who has yet to be at a tournament and finish ahead of GW, as a matter of fact, hasn't been to a tournament and finished ahead of GW, Williamstown, or Ravenswood (who finished above them at state tournament 2023) Every Tournament where 1 of those 3 plus WC was in attendance, WC has dropped out.... If I'm wrong with the results correct me, hard to keep track when scores are never posted.

It all works itself out in the end, and coaches polls are not a respectable source in my opinion due to lack of voting and popularity contest, I wish WVSSAC actually took the time and did actual, factual, data filled Rankings.

First of all, I did not say it is harder (although, who knows, it might be). I said it is at least as hard (and if that is incorrect, then yes I do think it is harder, as it most certainly is not easier). It's not about the number of schools, as you pointed out yourself that many of the Single A schools (and I believe a fair number of Double A teams) are far from a full roster. Quantity is not important, quality is, or maybe more importantly, the quantity of quality. And just because some kids ranked in the top 10 in Region 1 AA/A don't make it to the state tournament does not necessarily make it harder to place in the state tournament in AA/A compared to AAA. It's actually just the opposite if you're saying that lesser wrestlers are there in their place, which obviously is what you are saying. Just because some AA teams, and even some A teams, can beat some AAA teams doesn't refute anything I posted, because I never was making an argument that AAA was better than anybody else. I was just saying that making the state tournament less competitive to ensure someone wins a state title is not the solution. I was not commenting on the disparity in ranked wrestlers in different regions. I have lived with that reality with all the teams in the region I have followed for the past 50 some years. I have grown up with and seen kids in the wrestling room not wrestling in the regional who were probably better than some of the kids that eventually placed.

I believe some weights at A/AA are tougher to place than AAA. Again just my opinion. But shouldn't AAA have the toughest competition and most struggle to place? I stand by my opinion that a handful of AA should move up to even out the numbers. Yes it will make A/AA just slightly less competitive than it is now, but the top tier guys in AA are already making matches less competitive because of their dominance. Is it more fair for a team like Fairmont Senior to be competing against teams like St. Mary's, Wahama, Williamstown and West (all of whom fill full lineups), or for them to compete against teams like South, University, Ripley, etc. Im just saying it is a little lopsided right now and if anyone disagrees that is their opinion. But I also think those people who believe that just don't watch enough A/AA. Ultimately this can hurt small schools trying to start/build a program. Kids may not come out or try the sport if they think they have zero shot to do something at the end of the year. The last thing we need to be doing is lowering participation numbers. It should be encouraging to other schools to be competitive on an even field. Anyways, completely off topic from the original post but there is my rant. People can debate this stuff till their blue in the face but it will not change most of our opinions. Gotta love the freedom of speech!

I agree with you expressing your opinion and I respect it and understand where you are coming from. Just to be clear I was not lamenting that adding schools like Fairmont Senior to AAA would make it tougher. I preferred the days when all of the Fairmont area schools were competing in AAA. The tougher the better is how I always looked at it.

[KDunbar]

Have the new A-AA-AAA-AAAA straight across the board for all athletics.

That would be good.
Single A state tournament participants would be (in no particular order):
Greenbrier West
Cameron
Wirt County
Madonna
Magnolia
Hundred
Paden City
East Hardy
Notre Dame
Richwood
Webster County
Calhoun County
Gilmer County
Tug Valley
Wahama
Man
Meadow Bridge

From these teams there are about 22 wrestlers who are in the 140 wrestlers that make up the top 10 in the current AA/A individual rankings. They would fill up 22 of the 84 spots for state tournament placers. Of these 22 wrestler, 6 are from GW, 5 are from Wirt, 5 are from East Hardy, 3 are from Cameron, 3 are from Calhoun County, leaving none from the other 12 schools. So it's not fair to have these dominant top 5 teams to be in this tournament. So....

[RegionOne_fan]

Feb 3rd Results

Weir 39 Wheeling Central 33

Tyler Consolidated 42 Wheeling Central 37

[KDunbar]

Feb 3rd Results

Weir 39 Wheeling Central 33

Tyler Consolidated 42 Wheeling Central 37

Yes, we know their strength is as a tournament team.

[dtdthomas]

I was waiting to circle back to this topic when it came out. DumpTruckDave was very upset with a coaches poll and thought the right thing to do was to say this and that. Well Dave as you said things would work themselves out at the state tournament.