Oak Glen AAA to AA

[Bearhugger]

I was reading about Oak Glen's dominant run on another thread.

In looking at past state tournament scores, I noticed the following:

1996: Oak Glen scored 2 points and tied for 32nd place in the AAA state tournament. This was their last season in AAA.

1997: Oak Glen scored 189.5 points and won the AA/A title.

There has got to be a story here. How does a team go from scoring 2 points to scoring 189.5 points in one season? The difference in AAA vs AA/A competition could not have been that significant.

Who knows what?

[Gator]

I don't have a crystal ball to make the call on how it was done. The only comparison that I could find in 1997 was the OVAC tournament where Oak Glen finished over 50 points behind Wheeling Park and John Marshall who finished 3rd and 4th in the state AAA tournament that year behind 2nd place Fairmont Senior and champion South. I couldn't find a head to head tournament between South and Oak Glen or a dual that year, but South defeated AA/A runner up Wirt County that year in a dual 64-3. I know that coach Shaw's teams usually peaked at the right time and came to Huntington ready to wrestle.

[mattman]

If the above point totals were true with the ovac and state tournament points are correct.. Only one possible outcome, AA schools were weak compared to AAA or oak glen wrestlers wrestled their a$$es off at the state tournament!

[Gator]

If the above point totals were true with the ovac and state tournament points are correct.. Only one possible outcome, AA schools were weak compared to AAA or oak glen wrestlers wrestled their a$$es off at the state tournament!

OVAC Tournament held Jan 23 - 25, 1997



Overall Team Scoring:
1. Buckeye Local 184
2. East Liverpool 173.5
3. Wheeling Park 168.5
4. Martins Ferry 167.5
5. John Marshall 166.5
6. Beaver Local 159
7. Indian Creek 142.5
8. Cadiz 142
9. Brooke 113.5
10. Oak Glen 111.5

[guard0544]

AA is a lot more competitive nowadays. It wasnt always so. Still, the point difference from one year to the next is impressive.

[coach_williams]

I think that AA was quite a bit weaker back then than it is now. Just take a look at the win/loss percentage of those who placed in weight classes then compared to now.

- In 1997 Kimmer Cline placed 4th at 112 with a 21-14 record (.600). This year nobody placed at 113 with less than 33 wins and the lowest win/loss ratio of the top 6 placers was .763. The same generally holds true throughout the weight classes.
- In 1997 Jason Jones took 2nd place at 119 with a 30-12 record (.712), only two wrestlers at 120 this past year had less than 30 wins and only one had less than an 83% win rate. The top 4 placers at 120 won 98%, 85%, 95% and 85% of their matches respectively.
- In 1997 Mike Witherow placed 4th at 130 with a 17-13 record (.566). Rarely do we see a wrestler who only won a little more than half of their matches place at states anymore.

The level of competition at AA is just WAY higher now than it was then. This goes for all sports, not just wrestling. I went to Greenbrier East and I can remember all through the 1980's and early 1990's we would beat up on Greenbrier West at the yearly East-West Jug Game (the jug still resides in the trophy case at East), but these days West would either beat East or give them a run for their money most years.

[Gator]

I've been watching high school wrestling in WV since 1967 and I think there are some years past that AA/A was down, but I can recall some really good teams and some great individual AA/A wrestlers in years before 1997. In 1968 the state tournament was held at Parkersburg High and Wirt County won the all class state title. In 1976, the first year the states were split in two classes, Warwood, coached by Eric Carter, won the AA/A title and may have been the best team in the state that year.

[forthekids]

WOW we must be board. I am pretty sure Oak Glen was runner up at least 5 times in AAA. What does it matter what they did in AA is remarkable and don't think it will be beat.

[Bearhugger]

WOW we must be board. I am pretty sure Oak Glen was runner up at least 5 times in AAA. What does it matter what they did in AA is remarkable and don't think it will be beat.

The number one reason why Oak Glen's record may never be beat is because the AA/A landscape is substantially tougher NOW than it was was in the 90s and early 2000s.

I am taking nothing away from those Oak Glen teams, but the East Fairmont, Fairmont Senior, North Marion, Point Pleasant, Bridgeport, etc, etc wasn't in AA.

[noshowjoe]

Point Pleasant was in AA/A back then cause they got 2nd a few times.

[Sally]

As a whole I think teams, AAA or AA/A, are doing more these days to remain competitive. Programs are being built from the youth league to middle school then high school. Teams are travelling out of state to seek tough competition during December. I've heard many coaches say, "We want our kids facing tougher competition early in the season so the regional and state tournament aren't as difficult."

The number of dual/individual pool tournaments has increased in our state. 20 years ago it was easier to find bracketed tournaments in WV than dual tournaments. Kids are able to wrestle more matches and gain experience at the dual tournaments (especially for middle school teams). How many times has WV's career wins record been broken in 40 years?

Oak Glen is definitely an interesting story.

[forthekids]

Bearhugger,

My whole point was they finished above those teams consistently in AAA before dropping down. I don't think it will be broken because the kids changes. They bought into Larry Shaw system my way or highway. Kids don't function that way anymore. I think Independence has a shot if Cliff stays.

[Bearhugger]

Bearhugger,

My whole point was they finished above those teams consistently in AAA before dropping down. I don't think it will be broken because the kids changes. They bought into Larry Shaw system my way or highway. Kids don't function that way anymore. I think Independence has a shot if Cliff stays.

Yes, Oak Glen was a AAA power before dropping to AA.

AA is indeed tougher now than it was back in the Oak Glen era.

Although I didn't see the AA Oak Glen teams back then, I must say I am sure their kids were much tougher than the majority of today's kids.

If and when a AA team break's Oak Glen's record, it will be under tougher conditions.

[Crusty1]

1996 was a down year for Oak Glen, but if you look just two years after that, they tied North Marion (AAA state champs) in a dual meet. They also beat John Marshall in a dual meet that year. Two weeks later John Marshall beat South in a dual meet. They were good before 1996 and got progressively better after 1996. One other factor you may want think about is they were in Region 1 AAA. Im sure that there were some kids on that team that could have qualified for states and scored some point in any other region (AA or AAA). Just my two cents.

[IndyHart]

When did Larry Shaw start coaching at Oak Glen?

[TrueSouthFanInPburg]

coach williams, kinner cline who went 21-14 was .667 not .600 and mike withrow who went 30-12 was .714 not .712. you did get the other two correct.

[Bearhugger]

1996 was a down year for Oak Glen, but if you look just two years after that, they tied North Marion (AAA state champs) in a dual meet. They also beat John Marshall in a dual meet that year. Two weeks later John Marshall beat South in a dual meet. They were good before 1996 and got progressively better after 1996. One other factor you may want think about is they were in Region 1 AAA. Im sure that there were some kids on that team that could have qualified for states and scored some point in any other region (AA or AAA). Just my two cents.

The regional factor is a great detail that has been overlooked. I am sure AAA region 1 kept Oak Glen down somewhat (like it did all other AAA region 1 teams).

[Crusty1]

Coach Shaw started at Oak Glen in 1978