Forfeits in AAA

[Bearhugger]

So one of the problems that can arise from having a JV kid be allowed to enter regionals (though unlikely), is what if you have a kid at 126 that is favored to win states. The kid behind him, the JV guy, barely loses to him. The kid the team has at 132 is new, and is not winning many matches, the JV 126 could easily go up to beat him but 132 is loaded in the region and state, so he'd rather try against his teammate. So now, you have potential teammates wrestling in the state finals, and a weakened state of tournament scoring. Scenarios like this helps nobody.

Coaches (and parents) manage their teams accordingly. That is a big reason why we see such differences from one team to another.

I am sure in the situation you have mentioned, the JV 126 pounder will move up and become a varsity wrestler at 132. The positive here is the NEW JV wrestler (132) could enter the region, wrestle good enough to qualify and place. At the very least, he(she) knows that they have the chance for regional/state as opposed to being a JV left behind come regional weekend.

Everybody better do something before the forfeits take over.

[Bearhugger]

Indy has a JR wrestler who is still alive at the powerade. I guest when you are stuck behind Jacob Hart and Noah Adams.......you got to make the most of all opportunities.

J V

Bearhugger, How would the numbers work out if AAA went to 3 regions and took the top 5 plus one at-large invitation? Would there still be forfeits? Maybe they could realign the regions like this:
Region 1 - 9 teams
Brooke
Buckhannon-Upshur
Capital
John Marshall
Wheeling Park
Parkersburg High
Parkersburg South
Ripley
George Washington

Region 2 - 10 teams
Hampshire
Hedgesville
Jefferson
Martinsburg
Musselman
Spring Mills
Washington
Morgantown
Preston
University

Region 3 - 10 teams
Cabell Midland
Greenbrier East
Huntington High
Hurricane
Princeton
Riverside
South Charleston
Spring Valley
St Albans
Woodrow Wilson

Thanks - Brent

1. First and foremost, when Brentsams talks, I have always listened. This man is smart, an innovator, a problem solver, and a real wrestling enthusiast. I don't know who he is, but I did narrow it down to Parkersburg a few years ago.

2. This is one of the better ideas I have read. I will use your suggested regional team mix and plug it into my program. Results coming later today.

3. Got to open the doors for JV in the region.

[Bearhugger]

Most coaches will never agree to let JV wrestlers qualify for the state tournament because most teams have a problem filling weights for a varsity team.

I don't see a problem if they don't allow their points to be added for the team race. Every kid who comes to practice, sticks with it and pushes the varsity wrestlers, deserves a chance to compete at the top level. If that kid is better than a wrestler in another region, then they have earned his or her spot.

We need more encouragement to keep wrestlers on the mat, not put up roadblocks to discourage participation.

The teams having trouble filling the varsity spots do so because all of the kids in their school's district quit. Why did they quit? Many reasons. I will discuss only one reason for now. They quit because in 9th grade, they could make Varsity. Thus, they quit. Quitters never win, however, we live in a new society now.

If the JV could enter the region, here is the NEW tool every coach would have:

1. In late November, wrestle offs happen. Wrestler A beats wrestler B.
2. Once this happens, the coach can say to Wrestler B, "stick with it, we will put you in tournaments against other teams. You will get to see how you do. Rankings will come out in January. You will see some kids ranked that you have beat. Whereas you get to go to the regional tournament, you can still have a great season while Wrestler A contends for the state title. You COULD qualify and make the podium!!!!!"

Since coaches do not have the "tool" listed above, here is what we have:

Currently when Wrestler A beats out Wrestler B, the coach tells Wrestler B "too bad, you lost, sit back, watch Wrestler A win a state title. Please keep coming to practice so Wrestler A can beat on you. Maybe you can make varsity next season and get to wrestle a few matches".

[brentsams]

I saw Mr. Ryan out this evening and I introduced myself to him. He was not aware of the growing number of potential forfeits at the state tournament and no one has brought it to his attention but he can understand the concern. He said nothing can be done this year but it can be discussed at the coaches committee meeting and they can put something in place for next year. So any solutions you/we can come up with needs to be brought to the attention of the committee members, which are:
Mark Delligatti, Fairmont Sr.
Bill Whittington, Hedgesville HS
Sterling Beane, Braxton County HS
Rob Archer, Huntington HS
Chad Sarrett, Woodrow Wilson
Jeremy Tincher, Greenbrier W.
Ken Maisel, University
Pat McGillan, Oak Glen
Jeff Givens, Williamstown
I invited Mr. Ryan to the WV Duals this weekend and he is planning to attend.

Thanks - Brent

[Bearhugger]

I saw Mr. Ryan out this evening and I introduced myself to him. He was not aware of the growing number of potential forfeits at the state tournament and no one has brought it to his attention but he can understand the concern. He said nothing can be done this year but it can be discussed at the coaches committee meeting and they can put something in place for next year. So any solutions you/we can come up with needs to be brought to the attention of the committee members, which are:
Mark Delligatti, Fairmont Sr.
Bill Whittington, Hedgesville HS
Sterling Beane, Braxton County HS
Rob Archer, Huntington HS
Chad Sarrett, Woodrow Wilson
Jeremy Tincher, Greenbrier W.
Ken Maisel, University
Pat McGillan, Oak Glen
Jeff Givens, Williamstown
I invited Mr. Ryan to the WV Duals this weekend and he is planning to attend.

Thanks - Brent

Please send me these guy's email addresses. I'll cover them up with data.

The WV Duals will be a good practical demonstration though.

[hurrmat1]

Out of the 29 AAA high schools, Only 7 have a full line up. Of those 7 schools, 5 are currently ranked in the top 10. Here is an overview of the current top 10 AAA schools, their population size, number of forfeits and their region.

1. South. Parkersburg South is ranked first. The school ranks 5th in terms of population size with 1,576 students. They forfeit zero weight classes and compete in region 4.
2. Parkersburg is #2. Third largest high school with 1,798 students. Forfeit 1 class and compete in region 4.
3. Huntington is #3. 4th largest with 1,658. Forfeit 1. Region 4.
4. Ripley ranks 4th. They are the smallest in terms of population with 933 students. They forfeit 2 weight classes and are in region 4. Despite 2 forfeits, they are ranked ahead of 6 schools with full line ups.
5. Wheeling Park is 5th. 8th in size with 1,514. Zero forfeits and competes in region 1.
6. Cabell Midland is ranked 6th. They are WV’s largest school with 1,965 students, zero forfeits and in region 4.
7. University is tied for 7th with St. Albans. University is the 12th largest school with 1,264. Zero forfeits and in region 1.
8. St. Albans has 1,012 students (26th largest). Forfeits 3 weight classes and is in region 3.
9. Greenbrier East is 9th. They have 1,171 students (19th). They have a full line up. Region 3.
10. Riverside rounds out the top 10. They have 1,207 students (16th). They forfeit two weight classes and compete in region 3.


As of now, there are no region 2 schools making the top 10. Five of the top six are from region 4.

I believe this is the kind of post aacoach70 is referring to. How about suggesting a solution instead of simply stating what anyone that follows WV wrestling is already aware of. I'm sure Coach Archer and Coach Way would be grateful for you to pull them to the side while up at PowerAde and provide some of your Gable-esque wisdom.

1. We had nine schools drop down to AA from AAA. This resulted in a disastrous restructuring of the regions. This has HURT wrestling and it will continue to hurt wrestling until something is done.

2. We don't have full teams, but everybody is still caught up in this "team" mindset. When a coach or parent takes a group of kids to the NHSCA, Flonats or Super 32, they do not take a team. They take a group of kids. They want all of the kids to win, do well, place and maybe win it all. Sometimes these kids are in the SAME weight class. However, allowing JV to wrestle in the regions is taboo. Some coach might manipulate the outcome and score a few points and place his team 5th instead of 6th. I just heard today from a total stranger that allegedly a kid won his wrestle off. However, his coach is having him wrestle UP a weight to help the TEAM. The kid wanted to quit. Maybe this is the kind of stuff that is contributing to a forfeit rate of 21% across the states largest schools.

We need a wild card system to at least give a top 5th place regional placer an opportunity to wrestle in the states to either cover a bye or to compensate for the out of balance strength and weakness of the regions.

We need to allow B teams to wrestle in the region. If they qualify, send them to the state tournament. Many kids quit wrestling because they cannot beat out the multi-time state champion on their TEAM. If given the chance, this B teamer might place in the state tournament.

For decades, "people" thought Coal was going to keep WV up and running.

For decades, people think that wrestling has to be one wrestler per weight class per school.

The lack of coal activity has made many folks move away. They are taking their wrestlers with them.

When a kid is behind two state champions, why should he stick with the sport???? I know of a kid right now that is behind two multi state champions. I bet he would place min the state tournament if he could be given a chance. I HAVE A SOLUTION. Let this B teamer wrestle in the region. Based on what I see, the regions need more wrestlers anyway. If the kid knows he has a shot at going to the states, despite being a B teamer, he might stick around. If he sticks around, he will be back next season to help the TEAM.

All this TEAM, TEAM, TEAM crap might be part of why the individuals do not want to wrestle anymore. No individuals, no team.

In conclusion, quit dreaming up meanings to my posts. Political correctness is ruining some folks and it might be rubbing off on the TEAM.

As for Coach Archer and Coach Way, their teams are the least of our concerns. Their forfeit % is well above average. However, Coach Archer usually has a few B teamers each season that could place min the state tournament. I provided a solution for that above.

Almost all other sports play their B teamers and even alternate players on plays.

Great Post!!!

[Bearhugger]

I believe this is the kind of post aacoach70 is referring to. How about suggesting a solution instead of simply stating what anyone that follows WV wrestling is already aware of. I'm sure Coach Archer and Coach Way would be grateful for you to pull them to the side while up at PowerAde and provide some of your Gable-esque wisdom.

1. We had nine schools drop down to AA from AAA. This resulted in a disastrous restructuring of the regions. This has HURT wrestling and it will continue to hurt wrestling until something is done.

2. We don't have full teams, but everybody is still caught up in this "team" mindset. When a coach or parent takes a group of kids to the NHSCA, Flonats or Super 32, they do not take a team. They take a group of kids. They want all of the kids to win, do well, place and maybe win it all. Sometimes these kids are in the SAME weight class. However, allowing JV to wrestle in the regions is taboo. Some coach might manipulate the outcome and score a few points and place his team 5th instead of 6th. I just heard today from a total stranger that allegedly a kid won his wrestle off. However, his coach is having him wrestle UP a weight to help the TEAM. The kid wanted to quit. Maybe this is the kind of stuff that is contributing to a forfeit rate of 21% across the states largest schools.

We need a wild card system to at least give a top 5th place regional placer an opportunity to wrestle in the states to either cover a bye or to compensate for the out of balance strength and weakness of the regions.

We need to allow B teams to wrestle in the region. If they qualify, send them to the state tournament. Many kids quit wrestling because they cannot beat out the multi-time state champion on their TEAM. If given the chance, this B teamer might place in the state tournament.

For decades, "people" thought Coal was going to keep WV up and running.

For decades, people think that wrestling has to be one wrestler per weight class per school.

The lack of coal activity has made many folks move away. They are taking their wrestlers with them.

When a kid is behind two state champions, why should he stick with the sport???? I know of a kid right now that is behind two multi state champions. I bet he would place min the state tournament if he could be given a chance. I HAVE A SOLUTION. Let this B teamer wrestle in the region. Based on what I see, the regions need more wrestlers anyway. If the kid knows he has a shot at going to the states, despite being a B teamer, he might stick around. If he sticks around, he will be back next season to help the TEAM.

All this TEAM, TEAM, TEAM crap might be part of why the individuals do not want to wrestle anymore. No individuals, no team.

In conclusion, quit dreaming up meanings to my posts. Political correctness is ruining some folks and it might be rubbing off on the TEAM.

As for Coach Archer and Coach Way, their teams are the least of our concerns. Their forfeit % is well above average. However, Coach Archer usually has a few B teamers each season that could place min the state tournament. I provided a solution for that above.

Almost all other sports play their B teamers and even alternate players on plays.

Great Post!!!

Thanks!

[captaincoalman]

Bearhugger did you wrestle in high school?

[Bearhugger]

Bearhugger did you wrestle in high school?

No, I was in show choir.

[Frank]

Bearhugger did you wrestle in high school?

No, I was in show choir.

Tell us about that line up

[Gator]

Bearhugger did you wrestle in high school?

No, I was in show choir.

Tell us about that line up

Maybe Bearhugger can sing the National Anthem before the Huntington, Indy and South tri.

[captaincoalman]

I wish I knew if you were being serious or just trying to make fun of kids who are in show choir. If you didn't wrestle this tells me you have no idea how tough wrestling is. It is tougher than any other sport and as the level of wrestling increases the number of participants will decrease because it is so demanding to be successful. There is nothing better than going days eating very little trying to make weight just so you can have someone twist you into knots. If you really didn't ever wrestle then that explains why you keep asking why kids didn't come back out. Just because a kid was successful doesn't mean they enjoyed wrestling.

[Frank]

No, I was in show choir.

Tell us about that line up

Maybe Bearhugger can sing the National Anthem before the Huntington, Indy and South tri.

I'm a fairly patriotic individual Gator. I still haven't forgave Roseanne Barr for performance at a baseball game a decade ago. I voted for trump just so she'd goto Canada. She disappointed me there too.

[Jbee]

I wish I knew if you were being serious or just trying to make fun of kids who are in show choir. If you didn't wrestle this tells me you have no idea how tough wrestling is. It is tougher than any other sport and as the level of wrestling increases the number of participants will decrease because it is so demanding to be successful. There is nothing better than going days eating very little trying to make weight just so you can have someone twist you into knots. If you really didn't ever wrestle then that explains why you keep asking why kids didn't come back out. Just because a kid was successful doesn't mean they enjoyed wrestling.

Fact!

[Bearhugger]

I saw Mr. Ryan out this evening and I introduced myself to him. He was not aware of the growing number of potential forfeits at the state tournament and no one has brought it to his attention but he can understand the concern. He said nothing can be done this year but it can be discussed at the coaches committee meeting and they can put something in place for next year. So any solutions you/we can come up with needs to be brought to the attention of the committee members, which are:
Mark Delligatti, Fairmont Sr.
Bill Whittington, Hedgesville HS
Sterling Beane, Braxton County HS
Rob Archer, Huntington HS
Chad Sarrett, Woodrow Wilson
Jeremy Tincher, Greenbrier W.
Ken Maisel, University
Pat McGillan, Oak Glen
Jeff Givens, Williamstown
I invited Mr. Ryan to the WV Duals this weekend and he is planning to attend.

Thanks - Brent

Nobody had brought the potential forfeits to Mr. Ryan's attention?????

[Frank]

I wish I knew if you were being serious or just trying to make fun of kids who are in show choir. If you didn't wrestle this tells me you have no idea how tough wrestling is. It is tougher than any other sport and as the level of wrestling increases the number of participants will decrease because it is so demanding to be successful. There is nothing better than going days eating very little trying to make weight just so you can have someone twist you into knots. If you really didn't ever wrestle then that explains why you keep asking why kids didn't come back out. Just because a kid was successful doesn't mean they enjoyed wrestling.

Fact!

Tell him,
I didn't really fall in love with the sport until I saw the suffering my son was going thur.
He be sending me to the cheapest old folks home on the market

[Bearhugger]

I wish I knew if you were being serious or just trying to make fun of kids who are in show choir. If you didn't wrestle this tells me you have no idea how tough wrestling is. It is tougher than any other sport and as the level of wrestling increases the number of participants will decrease because it is so demanding to be successful. There is nothing better than going days eating very little trying to make weight just so you can have someone twist you into knots. If you really didn't ever wrestle then that explains why you keep asking why kids didn't come back out. Just because a kid was successful doesn't mean they enjoyed wrestling.

Fact!

Tell him,
I didn't really fall in love with the sport until I saw the suffering my son was going thur.
He be sending me to the cheapest old folks home on the market

My love for the sport has also increased as I watched the pain and agony your son went through all year.

[Bearhugger]

I wish I knew if you were being serious or just trying to make fun of kids who are in show choir. If you didn't wrestle this tells me you have no idea how tough wrestling is. It is tougher than any other sport and as the level of wrestling increases the number of participants will decrease because it is so demanding to be successful. There is nothing better than going days eating very little trying to make weight just so you can have someone twist you into knots. If you really didn't ever wrestle then that explains why you keep asking why kids didn't come back out. Just because a kid was successful doesn't mean they enjoyed wrestling.

I wrestled. I also have been involved in Jujitsu, Judo, Sambo and Aikido. Competed in Judo. I know all about getting twisted in knots. I know about getting choked. I know about ankle locks, neck cranks, kneebars, armbars and even a half nelson. I know my way around many sports that involve mats. The injuries I experienced in Judo were by far worse than anything wrestling ever presented to me.

Based on the wording of your posts, the question is have you ever wrestled? Regardless, I have met plenty of people in my time that never set foot on a mat, but their knowledge of the sport was top notch. I have also witnessed state champions not even graduate high school.

None of this matters. The sport is forfeiting away compared to what it used to be.

[aacoach70]

You have really taken up this cause to fly the flag for JV wrestlers even though this is not new. Just curious why now? Is it just that you feel we have to start somewhere to make a change? You do realize that while it may seem unfair that good JV wrestlers don't get into regional tournaments, good varsity wrestlers have been kept out of the state tournament over the years. There have been many times a regional fifth place finisher has beaten other qualifiers- finalists perhaps, from weaker regions. I'd support a system that allowed that kid to fill a spot before I would the JV wrestler. You are a knowledgeable fan and I do respect you for your involvement and contribution, but I do not think your theories about what makes a wrestler stay with the sport are at all correct. What motivates an athlete is an individual thing. It would be incorrect to say that a freshman will quit the team because he cannot make the varsity team. Wrestling may be one of the only sports in which starters will quit on you. I can personally cite cases in which this has happened. In some cases, freshmen may be varsity starters by default, with no back-up, and they still quit. I have had state placewinners elect not to come out the following year, nor does having team success equate to more boys wanting to join the team the following year. It really has to start with getting them at a young age and allowing them to experience the sport early. Hopefully, enough of them will be together when they come up through high school. On a separate note, while I agree that there are more forfeits now than ever, I took the time to scroll to the bottom of the results page. I worked my way up from 1998 to present. Randomly checking A AA and AAA scores revealed that there were 2, and in many cases several forfeits. I guess the greater concern, however, with the new alignments is that there might not be four qualifiers in every weight class. That is very possible. There's still some time for teams to recognize this and perhaps make an adjustment to fill the class before the regionals.

[Bearhugger]

You have really taken up this cause to fly the flag for JV wrestlers even though this is not new. Just curious why now? Is it just that you feel we have to start somewhere to make a change? You do realize that while it may seem unfair that good JV wrestlers don't get into regional tournaments, good varsity wrestlers have been kept out of the state tournament over the years. There have been many times a regional fifth place finisher has beaten other qualifiers- finalists perhaps, from weaker regions. I'd support a system that allowed that kid to fill a spot before I would the JV wrestler. You are a knowledgeable fan and I do respect you for your involvement and contribution, but I do not think your theories about what makes a wrestler stay with the sport are at all correct. What motivates an athlete is an individual thing. It would be incorrect to say that a freshman will quit the team because he cannot make the varsity team. Wrestling may be one of the only sports in which starters will quit on you. I can personally cite cases in which this has happened. In some cases, freshmen may be varsity starters by default, with no back-up, and they still quit. I have had state placewinners elect not to come out the following year, nor does having team success equate to more boys wanting to join the team the following year. It really has to start with getting them at a young age and allowing them to experience the sport early. Hopefully, enough of them will be together when they come up through high school. On a separate note, while I agree that there are more forfeits now than ever, I took the time to scroll to the bottom of the results page. I worked my way up from 1998 to present. Randomly checking A AA and AAA scores revealed that there were 2, and in many cases several forfeits. I guess the greater concern, however, with the new alignments is that there might not be four qualifiers in every weight class. That is very possible. There's still some time for teams to recognize this and perhaps make an adjustment to fill the class before the regionals.

JV wrestlers, participation and regionals are three separate issues that often get merged together.

Why now you ask? Ok, lets keep things as they are now. It will only get worse. I suspect that is the mentality that is running rampant through these high schools.

The regional tournament is a tournament where any varsity wrestler can compete. There are no qualification requirements to be allowed to enter the REGIONAL tournament. The STATE tournament requires that you place in the top four in your respective region. I have no problem with that.

My message has always been to fill the REGIONAL tournament. Fill the gym with wrestlers. Let them wrestle. Continue to take the top four to the state tournament. If a JV wrestler qualifies, then you keep their team points separate like we already do during the regular season.

We have an increased amount of JV wrestlers entering Varsity tournaments. This is then creating situations where the JV are beating ranked kids. The JV still has to stay home during REGIONAL WEEKEND. This makes a mockery of the state tournament. The best in certain weight classes are not being given the chance to wrestle in the REGIONS and QUALIFY for the state tournament.

Somebody else should have noticed this years ago and already addressed the problem. I figure they didn't because they figured "this is how it has always been for 30 years", so "why now".

It is like Wrestler A losing to Wrestler B on December 1. Wrestler A develops a mentality of "well, Wrestler B beat me, I guess I will lose to him for the rest of the season".

[fireman]

Bear hugger!! I enjoy your info as MANY others do. This day and age people just hate hearing facts. It's not all roses... I was a small town Coach with 20 kids, 6 all same weiget class. Our school ad, principal, and majority of teachers board were pro-football and basketball. They receive the support. I had a good group of jv wrestlers but was not given funds to take them anywhere!! The boys got discouraged and QUIT. this happens alot in very small areas. 2 transfered to the next County, stayed jv, but was able to go out and wrestle. How can a small area battle this. When your adults don't support it,,,,, very sad. I quit and moved for work, hoping my new location in PA. Is more receptive to promoting all athletes. Wv has problems that are at the school level and work there way up to wvssac .
I miss being involved as all parents coaches and former wrestlers should. Let's run out those who don't know anything about it,,, and bring back the knowledge of the late 70s-80s. Varsity was the best. JV was second string and states were about individuals winning state titles.... not a fan of the state team title anymore. Long live wrestling and the many people who are fighting to keep it alive. Sorry. Rant over !!

[Bearhugger]

Bear hugger!! I enjoy your info as MANY others do. This day and age people just hate hearing facts. It's not all roses... I was a small town Coach with 20 kids, 6 all same weiget class. Our school ad, principal, and majority of teachers board were pro-football and basketball. They receive the support. I had a good group of jv wrestlers but was not given funds to take them anywhere!! The boys got discouraged and QUIT. this happens alot in very small areas. 2 transfered to the next County, stayed jv, but was able to go out and wrestle. How can a small area battle this. When your adults don't support it,,,,, very sad. I quit and moved for work, hoping my new location in PA. Is more receptive to promoting all athletes. Wv has problems that are at the school level and work there way up to wvssac .
I miss being involved as all parents coaches and former wrestlers should. Let's run out those who don't know anything about it,,, and bring back the knowledge of the late 70s-80s. Varsity was the best. JV was second string and states were about individuals winning state titles.... not a fan of the state team title anymore. Long live wrestling and the many people who are fighting to keep it alive. Sorry. Rant over !!

I also moved away for employment reasons back in 1991. I make road trips from Charlotte almost every weekend to watch WEST VIRGINIA wrestling. Matter of fact, this past weekend was the only weekend I have sat out.

The facts and strong opinions I talk about have only been formed in the past 3-4 years from watching what is actually going on with WV wrestling.

While many talk and dream of a "West Virginia State Dual Tournament", I only see 3 to four teams at best that stand a chance.

With participation as low as it is, the sport is trending more and more toward being an individual sport. It is only a team sport for a few schools.

Since the "individual" aspect of the sport is taking over, then I support all individuals be given a shot come regional tournament time.

[Sally]

Brent Sams knows wrestling and he definitely runs a great tournament. If memory serves me correctly I believe Brent wrestled behind another very good varsity wrestler. I would like to hear what Brent thinks concerning the JV topic.
I'm glad Mr. Ryan was made aware of the issue and I wonder if he did visit the WV Duals.

Because the WVSSAC chooses to be uneducated about our sport,
be prepared for more classic responses from the WVSSAC:
I was not aware of that.
That is something we will look into.
Talk to some other coaches and get back to me later.
We are looking into it and will get back with you later.
I can not make that decision without consulting Mr. Dolan.

And my all time favorite- We will need to ask Dr. Welker and get back with you.


PS- If not for Dr. Welker being involved our state would hurt more.

[Bearhugger]

Brent Sams knows wrestling and he definitely runs a great tournament. If memory serves me correctly I believe Brent wrestled behind another very good varsity wrestler. I would like to hear what Brent thinks concerning the JV topic.
I'm glad Mr. Ryan was made aware of the issue and I wonder if he did visit the WV Duals.

Because the WVSSAC chooses to be uneducated about our sport,
be prepared for more classic responses from the WVSSAC:
I was not aware of that.
That is something we will look into.
Talk to some other coaches and get back to me later.
We are looking into it and will get back with you later.
I can not make that decision without consulting Mr. Dolan.

And my all time favorite- We will need to ask Dr. Welker and get back with you.


PS- If not for Dr. Welker being involved our state would hurt more.

I gather you have attempted to work with the WVSSAC in the past.

I will take your input and use it to formulate my plan.

Call out Brentsams and lets get his feedback on your points above.

[mike.carman]

Brent Sams knows wrestling and he definitely runs a great tournament. If memory serves me correctly I believe Brent wrestled behind another very good varsity wrestler. I would like to hear what Brent thinks concerning the JV topic.
I'm glad Mr. Ryan was made aware of the issue and I wonder if he did visit the WV Duals.

Because the WVSSAC chooses to be uneducated about our sport,
be prepared for more classic responses from the WVSSAC:
I was not aware of that.
That is something we will look into.
Talk to some other coaches and get back to me later.
We are looking into it and will get back with you later.
I can not make that decision without consulting Mr. Dolan.

And my all time favorite- We will need to ask Dr. Welker and get back with you.


PS- If not for Dr. Welker being involved our state would hurt more.

Sounds about right.

[greencrush]

Bear hugger!! I enjoy your info as MANY others do. This day and age people just hate hearing facts. It's not all roses... I was a small town Coach with 20 kids, 6 all same weiget class. Our school ad, principal, and majority of teachers board were pro-football and basketball. They receive the support. I had a good group of jv wrestlers but was not given funds to take them anywhere!! The boys got discouraged and QUIT. this happens alot in very small areas. 2 transfered to the next County, stayed jv, but was able to go out and wrestle. How can a small area battle this. When your adults don't support it,,,,, very sad. I quit and moved for work, hoping my new location in PA. Is more receptive to promoting all athletes. Wv has problems that are at the school level and work there way up to wvssac .
I miss being involved as all parents coaches and former wrestlers should. Let's run out those who don't know anything about it,,, and bring back the knowledge of the late 70s-80s. Varsity was the best. JV was second string and states were about individuals winning state titles.... not a fan of the state team title anymore. Long live wrestling and the many people who are fighting to keep it alive. Sorry. Rant over !!

I also moved away for employment reasons back in 1991. I make road trips from Charlotte almost every weekend to watch WEST VIRGINIA wrestling. Matter of fact, this past weekend was the only weekend I have sat out.

The facts and strong opinions I talk about have only been formed in the past 3-4 years from watching what is actually going on with WV wrestling.

While many talk and dream of a "West Virginia State Dual Tournament", I only see 3 to four teams at best that stand a chance.

With participation as low as it is, the sport is trending more and more toward being an individual sport. It is only a team sport for a few schools.

Since the "individual" aspect of the sport is taking over, then I support all individuals be given a shot come regional tournament time.

I agree that it is much more of an individual sport. That's exactly why the state should go to an all class tourney. Give the kids a chance to shine against a field full of worthy competitors, instead of a watered down field with only 8-10 true competitors to begin with.