AAA 120 Travesty of Competition

[Bearhugger]

You are correct. Spring Mills, Martinsburg and Jefferson have no 120. My question is what do you expect someone to do about it? What is the "fix" that you want? There are no JV 120 wrestlers to move into those open spots on those teams. I assume those teams also have no JV 113 they could bump up (I know Spring Mills does not) or I assume they would have done it. The only possible fix I see is to eliminate the regions all together and take the top 16 to states, but we know that isn't going to happen this year.

The fix "we" want is for a wrestler to be dug up from another region and fill this void. Participation in wrestling is terrible. The rules and systems are stacked against the kids who want to wrestle.

Well said!
Has anyone looked at other weight classes in AAA or AA/A if there will be byes in other weight classes at states?
Would this be possible to do this year or is this any violation of rules?

I have looked at all of AAA's weight classes early in the season and posted the findings in regard to byes. AAA's 113 in region 2 grew to four wrestlers finally, but the Animal could take 1-2 of them out.

AAA region 2 120 is the current problem now.

There are many weight classes with just 4 wrestlers. How many of these could drop to 3 by the time February 23rd rolls around.

[Frank]

I would never fight with a female Gator.
I can't win a fight with female of any species.

[Bearhugger]

You are correct. Spring Mills, Martinsburg and Jefferson have no 120. My question is what do you expect someone to do about it? What is the "fix" that you want? There are no JV 120 wrestlers to move into those open spots on those teams. I assume those teams also have no JV 113 they could bump up (I know Spring Mills does not) or I assume they would have done it. The only possible fix I see is to eliminate the regions all together and take the top 16 to states, but we know that isn't going to happen this year.

The fix "we" want is for a wrestler to be dug up from another region and fill this void. Participation in wrestling is terrible. The rules and systems are stacked against the kids who want to wrestle.

I get that.

We all know where you would want the fill-in to come from, but who makes that decision? There is hardly enough time between regionals and states to have a wrestle-off. There would need to be a criteria decided upon.

I do not care where the fill in comes from as long as the logic used is sound and a fill in is filled in. A bye at the state tournament is the first cancer cell to kill wrestling.

[P.H.D.]

I believe that OG wrestler was AJ Rhodes. Great wrestler and even better young man!

[Bearhugger]

The logical choice is a regional 5th place finisher.

Before you had wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps. I was thinking in that regard.

Coach Williams my friend...............you are mistaken. I never said anything about a JV wrestler filling byes at the state tournament. Heck, if a coach has a JV wrestler laying around, the coach can enter him/her into the regional tournament and fix this problem.

[Bearhugger]

South is going to win AAA. Independence is going to win AA/A. I really doubt this "bye filling wrestler" is going to shake up the team scores. Finishing 11th instead of 12th might be some kind of moral victory for some teams, but nobody will remember 3 minutes after they read the final results.

There will not be two wrestlers from the same school in the same weight class.

I agree with your two picks bearhugger.

I have a lot of useless memory in my head.....But in regards to a 5th place wrestler moving up and "Shaking up the team scores", please check the 2009 Region I AA/A results 189Ib class.

Then check the state tournament results for the following weekend in 2009 AA/A 189Ib class.

Without checking, there obviously was a 5th placer who shook things up. This is another example of why we need a new system for qualifying wrestlers into the state tournament. A new system would eliminate byes, insure the best make it in and we do not have a weakened state tournament.

[Bearhugger]

South is going to win AAA. Independence is going to win AA/A. I really doubt this "bye filling wrestler" is going to shake up the team scores. Finishing 11th instead of 12th might be some kind of moral victory for some teams, but nobody will remember 3 minutes after they read the final results.

There will not be two wrestlers from the same school in the same weight class.

Nice to know you think everyone but South and Indy are irrelevant. I can't imagine how wrestling will ever get better in the state if everyone sees it the same way. Imagine all of the wrestlers reading this right now and seeing someone who claims to be a fan of the sport proclaiming that 3 minutes after reading the results their entire season will mean nothing if they were not wearing a South or Indy singlet.

Coach Williams, you need to read all of the words in order to understand the message. I clearly said what two teams are going to win the titles. I hope all of the wrestlers reading are not delusional, but focused. If they are, then they will accomplish their individual goals, thus helping their team. If focused, they also know who is going to win the team titles.

[Bearhugger]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

The WVSSAC rules committee will not even listen this year and I believe the deadline to submit rules changes for next year has passed as well. We may be looking at 2 years out for a fix at this point. They only vote on rules changes once a year and proposals need submitted well in advance.

This is a crock. The regions are considered a rule?

I do not believe that when techniques are outlawed, they are identified and then we wait two years to actually outlaw them.

[Bearhugger]

Before you had wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps. I was thinking in that regard.

I have NEVER wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps.

When I have mentioned the JV aspect of the sport, I said to allow them to enter the regional tournaments, allow them to compete and earn a spot in the top four. You have to keep this stuff straight.

Don't get your panties twisted up. Have a beer. Relax.

You should not promote alcoholism on this site. All wrestlers are under the age of 21. I am sipping a protein drink............it keeps me focused.

[Bearhugger]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

Wayne Ryan is over wrestling, but I imagine the Wrestling Committee would have to be involved. Unless it has changed, the committee is Mark Delligatti, Fairmont Sr., Bill Whittington, Hedgesville HS, Sterling Beane, Braxton HS, Rob Archer, Huntington HS, Chad Sarrett, Woodrow Wilson, Jeremy Tincher, Greenbrier West, Ken Maisel, University, Pat McGillan, Oak Glen and Jeff Givens, Williamstown.

Is this committee's actual members posted somewhere officially?

[Bearhugger]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

The WVSSAC rules committee will not even listen this year and I believe the deadline to submit rules changes for next year has passed as well. We may be looking at 2 years out for a fix at this point. They only vote on rules changes once a year and proposals need submitted well in advance.

And that is a huge problem! So much hoop jumping, red tape cutting, steps in the way of making real change. It's so frustrating that a simple undeniable problem is present, and realistic simple solution is available, but we are looking at 2 years possibly to get a resolution? How exactly is this what's best for the kids and the sport?

We need to find out the name of the state tournament director.

[Bearhugger]

:D

They might both win but I'll guarantee while the team champion photos are being taken, everyone won't be smiling.

I sense some hate. Makes me hungry!

No hate at all. Maybe a little envy of the solid lineups these teams can produce ,all I'm saying is while each team can boast a team victory they're not #1 in each head to head. Snack on that!

Nobody ever said they were #1 in every head to head.

[Bearhugger]

This isnt the first time there will be a bye at the state tournament. In the 2004 AAA state tournament there were 3 byes at the 103 pound class. Region 4 had 2 byes, Region 3 had 1 bye. That year Region 2 had a 5th place finisher stay home and Region 1 had a 5th and 6th place finsher stay home. Those three wrestler could have been placed in the three vacant spots in the tournament but they were not. I know it was thirteen years ago, but if it was not a concern to the wvssac then i doubt it will be now. Just my opinion.

Then lets all let wrestling die and keep WV #50 out of 50 states.

[Bearhugger]

:D

No hate at all. Maybe a little envy of the solid lineups these teams can produce ,all I'm saying is while each team can boast a team victory they're not #1 in each head to head. Snack on that!

I don't recall anyone saying they were #1 in all the head to head battles. Plenty of great wrestlers out there with many different teams. I do love to snack!

All I'm saying is the moral victory that a kid on the 11th or 12th place team that no one will remember 3 minutes after they announce the team champions will be the individual title he just won. You n bear can't win every argument.

I remember all individuals. I just do not remember the "teams" once they fall below third place.

[Gator]

I believe that OG wrestler was AJ Rhodes. Great wrestler and even better young man!

I think Sally was referring to OG's 189 Zac Montero. Finished 5th in the regional and was awarded the 4th position because of an injury(broken leg?) and went to Huntington and finished 2nd in the state.

[Gator]

I would never fight with a female Gator.
I can't win a fight with female of any species.

[P.H.D.]

I believe that OG wrestler was AJ Rhodes. Great wrestler and even better young man!

I think Sally was referring to OG's 189 Zac Montero. Finished 5th in the regional and was awarded the 4th position because of an injury(broken leg?) and went to Huntington and finished 2nd in the state.

Man I thought AJ filled a spot too and capitalized.

[Bearhugger]

I believe that OG wrestler was AJ Rhodes. Great wrestler and even better young man!

I think Sally was referring to OG's 189 Zac Montero. Finished 5th in the regional and was awarded the 4th position because of an injury(broken leg?) and went to Huntington and finished 2nd in the state.

Man I thought AJ filled a spot too and capitalized.

Call AJ and see if he has any relatives or friends that live over in region 2 and know of a 120 kid that can fill this bye. We need the fix now as opposed to waiting 2 years.

[P.H.D.]

I believe that OG wrestler was AJ Rhodes. Great wrestler and even better young man!

I think Sally was referring to OG's 189 Zac Montero. Finished 5th in the regional and was awarded the 4th position because of an injury(broken leg?) and went to Huntington and finished 2nd in the state.

Sorry, Aj finished 2nd in region and state in 2009 at 145.

[Frank]

I would never fight with a female Gator.
I can't win a fight with female of any species.

lol exactly

[mike.carman]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

The WVSSAC rules committee will not even listen this year and I believe the deadline to submit rules changes for next year has passed as well. We may be looking at 2 years out for a fix at this point. They only vote on rules changes once a year and proposals need submitted well in advance.

This is a crock. The regions are considered a rule?

I do not believe that when techniques are outlawed, they are identified and then we wait two years to actually outlaw them.

Not a crock!
http://www.wvssac.org/wp-content/upload ... 6-17-2.pdf

[aaacoach89]

This isnt the first time there will be a bye at the state tournament. In the 2004 AAA state tournament there were 3 byes at the 103 pound class. Region 4 had 2 byes, Region 3 had 1 bye. That year Region 2 had a 5th place finisher stay home and Region 1 had a 5th and 6th place finsher stay home. Those three wrestler could have been placed in the three vacant spots in the tournament but they were not. I know it was thirteen years ago, but if it was not a concern to the wvssac then i doubt it will be now. Just my opinion.

This is the type of thought process that will keep WV wrestling where it is right now. The way it was in the past, the way it used to be, the way it's always been is a mute point. As a society all things progress and move on with time.......except in this state. I really don't give two flying farts through a cheerio what is important to the WVSSAC, or anyone else that is stuck in some other decade. The bottom line is that there is no valid or reasonable argument for not filling open spots with qualified wrestlers to make the state tournament more interesting and competitive. There is no valid or reasonable argument for not trying to get more kids involved in a sport that has numbers that are falling as fast as our great sport. There is no valid or reasonable argument for not trying to get the best, and I mean the 16 best (not 14 or 13), wrestlers involved in the state tournament. There is no valid or reasonable explanation for why obvious problems have to be stewed on, allowed to fester, and exist for two years or more because the proper form or paperwork wasn't submitted 2 decades in advance. We are not trying to pass legislation on reformed health care or solve world hunger......It's a sport for crying out loud, so all the bureaucracy is ridiculous. I call stalling.

The question I posed earlier was who would one call, right now, to broach the subject and state their case. Who has the power to make this a big deal NOW.

[aaacoach89]

The WVSSAC rules committee will not even listen this year and I believe the deadline to submit rules changes for next year has passed as well. We may be looking at 2 years out for a fix at this point. They only vote on rules changes once a year and proposals need submitted well in advance.

And that is a huge problem! So much hoop jumping, red tape cutting, steps in the way of making real change. It's so frustrating that a simple undeniable problem is present, and realistic simple solution is available, but we are looking at 2 years possibly to get a resolution? How exactly is this what's best for the kids and the sport?

We need to find out the name of the state tournament director.

Tournament Director is Bill Archer

[aaacoach89]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

Wayne Ryan is over wrestling, but I imagine the Wrestling Committee would have to be involved. Unless it has changed, the committee is Mark Delligatti, Fairmont Sr., Bill Whittington, Hedgesville HS, Sterling Beane, Braxton HS, Rob Archer, Huntington HS, Chad Sarrett, Woodrow Wilson, Jeremy Tincher, Greenbrier West, Ken Maisel, University, Pat McGillan, Oak Glen and Jeff Givens, Williamstown.

Is this committee's actual members posted somewhere officially?

Committee members are listed on WVSSAC website's wrestling page.

[Bearhugger]

And that is a huge problem! So much hoop jumping, red tape cutting, steps in the way of making real change. It's so frustrating that a simple undeniable problem is present, and realistic simple solution is available, but we are looking at 2 years possibly to get a resolution? How exactly is this what's best for the kids and the sport?

We need to find out the name of the state tournament director.

Tournament Director is Bill Archer

I saw earlier in the season that somebody from the WVSSAC ran the state tournament.

[aaacoach89]

We need to find out the name of the state tournament director.

Tournament Director is Bill Archer

I saw earlier in the season that somebody from the WVSSAC ran the state tournament.

The memo that was just put out on WV Mat, to coaches and AD's, about weigh ins and other things regarding the state tournament has Bill Archer listed as the Tournament Director.

[coach_williams]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

Wayne Ryan is over wrestling, but I imagine the Wrestling Committee would have to be involved. Unless it has changed, the committee is Mark Delligatti, Fairmont Sr., Bill Whittington, Hedgesville HS, Sterling Beane, Braxton HS, Rob Archer, Huntington HS, Chad Sarrett, Woodrow Wilson, Jeremy Tincher, Greenbrier West, Ken Maisel, University, Pat McGillan, Oak Glen and Jeff Givens, Williamstown.

Is this committee's actual members posted somewhere officially?

That list is a direct copy and paste from the WVSSAC website with the exception that the website says Beane is from Grafton HS and has been like that for years, so I corrected it on here

[coach_williams]

South is going to win AAA. Independence is going to win AA/A. I really doubt this "bye filling wrestler" is going to shake up the team scores. Finishing 11th instead of 12th might be some kind of moral victory for some teams, but nobody will remember 3 minutes after they read the final results.

There will not be two wrestlers from the same school in the same weight class.

Nice to know you think everyone but South and Indy are irrelevant. I can't imagine how wrestling will ever get better in the state if everyone sees it the same way. Imagine all of the wrestlers reading this right now and seeing someone who claims to be a fan of the sport proclaiming that 3 minutes after reading the results their entire season will mean nothing if they were not wearing a South or Indy singlet.

Coach Williams, you need to read all of the words in order to understand the message. I clearly said what two teams are going to win the titles. I hope all of the wrestlers reading are not delusional, but focused. If they are, then they will accomplish their individual goals, thus helping their team. If focused, they also know who is going to win the team titles.

I read everything quite clearly.

Calling an 11th place finish instead of a 12th place finish a "moral victory" is an undercutting of the goal of wrestling. Yes, the goal is to win first place, but the very foundation of wrestling is to strive to be better than you were before. Going from 12th to 11th is not a moral victory, it is evidence that the wrestlers and coaching staff are working together to improve their team.

It is easy to be #1 when you have the unequivocal support of the community, an administration that let's you travel thousands of miles every year, and an AD that looks the other way when you hold practice out of season or recruit from other schools. Not so much when you have a community that thinks their kids are the next Tom Brady and Michael Jordan and wrestling is too dangerous for their kids, an administration that is worried more about the bus costing $200 than anything else, and an AD that is a "football guy" so he makes you clear out the wrestling room the day after states and watches you like a hawk for you or your wrestlers to cast a shadow on the doorstep before November.

It is nice to think that the playing field is even for everyone. It is naïve to believe it. For some programs an improvement of one or two spots at states IS their victory and it is a damn good one if that is all that they can do with what they have to work with.

[Diamond]

Nice to know you think everyone but South and Indy are irrelevant. I can't imagine how wrestling will ever get better in the state if everyone sees it the same way. Imagine all of the wrestlers reading this right now and seeing someone who claims to be a fan of the sport proclaiming that 3 minutes after reading the results their entire season will mean nothing if they were not wearing a South or Indy singlet.

Coach Williams, you need to read all of the words in order to understand the message. I clearly said what two teams are going to win the titles. I hope all of the wrestlers reading are not delusional, but focused. If they are, then they will accomplish their individual goals, thus helping their team. If focused, they also know who is going to win the team titles.

I read everything quite clearly.

Calling an 11th place finish instead of a 12th place finish a "moral victory" is an undercutting of the goal of wrestling. Yes, the goal is to win first place, but the very foundation of wrestling is to strive to be better than you were before. Going from 12th to 11th is not a moral victory, it is evidence that the wrestlers and coaching staff are working together to improve their team.

It is easy to be #1 when you have the unequivocal support of the community, an administration that let's you travel thousands of miles every year, and an AD that looks the other way when you hold practice out of season or recruit from other schools. Not so much when you have a community that thinks their kids are the next Tom Brady and Michael Jordan and wrestling is too dangerous for their kids, an administration that is worried more about the bus costing $200 than anything else, and an AD that is a "football guy" so he makes you clear out the wrestling room the day after states and watches you like a hawk for you or your wrestlers to cast a shadow on the doorstep before November.

It is nice to think that the playing field is even for everyone. It is naïve to believe it. For some programs an improvement of one or two spots at states IS their victory and it is a damn good one if that is all that they can do with what they have to work with.

And there it is...Couldn't be put any better. Good Job Coach!!

[Bearhugger]

Nice to know you think everyone but South and Indy are irrelevant. I can't imagine how wrestling will ever get better in the state if everyone sees it the same way. Imagine all of the wrestlers reading this right now and seeing someone who claims to be a fan of the sport proclaiming that 3 minutes after reading the results their entire season will mean nothing if they were not wearing a South or Indy singlet.

Coach Williams, you need to read all of the words in order to understand the message. I clearly said what two teams are going to win the titles. I hope all of the wrestlers reading are not delusional, but focused. If they are, then they will accomplish their individual goals, thus helping their team. If focused, they also know who is going to win the team titles.

I read everything quite clearly.

Calling an 11th place finish instead of a 12th place finish a "moral victory" is an undercutting of the goal of wrestling. Yes, the goal is to win first place, but the very foundation of wrestling is to strive to be better than you were before. Going from 12th to 11th is not a moral victory, it is evidence that the wrestlers and coaching staff are working together to improve their team.

It is easy to be #1 when you have the unequivocal support of the community, an administration that let's you travel thousands of miles every year, and an AD that looks the other way when you hold practice out of season or recruit from other schools. Not so much when you have a community that thinks their kids are the next Tom Brady and Michael Jordan and wrestling is too dangerous for their kids, an administration that is worried more about the bus costing $200 than anything else, and an AD that is a "football guy" so he makes you clear out the wrestling room the day after states and watches you like a hawk for you or your wrestlers to cast a shadow on the doorstep before November.

It is nice to think that the playing field is even for everyone. It is naïve to believe it. For some programs an improvement of one or two spots at states IS their victory and it is a damn good one if that is all that they can do with what they have to work with.

Having a flawed system that permits byes at the state tournament while other wrestlers sit at home destroys the work of all wrestlers, coaches, parents and even ADs. To expand further, the thought of this same system having to remain how it is for another two years is ridiculous.